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Thread: Tai Chi as medicine

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Skip J. View Post
    Hello Scott;

    I don't have many words at the moment, all I can say is I felt exactly the same way you describe at your age. Enjoy it, and I hope you get to continue to enjoy it!
    Hi Skip,

    Once again words I have frequently heard and yet have never borne true to date, so I hope you will pardon me for being confident of my own judgment.

  2. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Skip J. View Post
    Hello taai....

    I don't have any adrenaline left anymore to discuss these serious issues "properly", I may never get it back.

    If you wish to delude yourself that the students you treat for pay are not the same exact students (as in the "same glass of water") that come to us recreational instructors the week after your clinical employer cuts them off for their insurance running out...... then go right on ahead....

    You know, I really find ironic in the extreme that you value the health benefits of your parents participating in recreational activities, any recreational activities.... and blow all the rest of us recreational instructors off as of no benefit to students...
    Please pardon me Skip for being honest here, and please believe me when I say I am fond of you, so my intentions are not to be confrontational, but your posts appear to have an underlying negative tone to them!

    Negativity colors all of our experiences with a bleakness that is not inherently there!

    A half glass of water can be viewed as half full or half empty and even though it is the same glass of water either way, what we bring to any experience determines the quality of that experience NOT the experience in and of itself!

  3. #153
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    Thank you Scott for your kind words...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    Please pardon me Skip for being honest here, and please believe me when I say I am fond of you, so my intentions are not to be confrontational, but your posts appear to have an underlying negative tone to them!

    Negativity colors all of our experiences with a bleakness that is not inherently there!

    A half glass of water can be viewed as half full or half empty and even though it is the same glass of water either way, what we bring to any experience determines the quality of that experience NOT the experience in and of itself!
    It seems that is what I thought of taai's posts, but my thinking has gone off the rails.. I stand corrected, my apologies to all concerned...

    Still, after giving my time, I prefer to think it has some value.... I just can't think any other way and keep going back... sorry if that resembles an "attachment"......

    I do like the positive comments taai has said about his own learning and his own school and especially his Master; I'll restrict myself to those words I guess..
    .... Skip

  4. #154
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    Coolll Scott

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    Hi Skip,

    Once again words I have frequently heard and yet have never borne true to date, so I hope you will pardon me for being confident of my own judgment.
    I do envy you that you know.......
    .... Skip

  5. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Skip J. View Post
    It seems that is what I thought of taai's posts, but my thinking has gone off the rails.. I stand corrected, my apologies to all concerned...

    Still, after giving my time, I prefer to think it has some value.... I just can't think any other way and keep going back... sorry if that resembles an "attachment"......

    I do like the positive comments taai has said about his own learning and his own school and especially his Master; I'll restrict myself to those words I guess..
    I can see how you may have misinterpreted tgy's posts, but I do not think he was intentionally meaning to diminish the value of your experiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skip J. View Post
    I do envy you that you know.......
    It appears, to my experience, that people have inherent temperaments that influence their outlook on life. The old nature or nurture argument, to me is merely two sides of the same coin. It appears to me we are influenced by both nature and nurture. I have been blessed with a temperament possessed of inherent tenacity that does not allow me to give up under any circumstances, no matter how apparently discouraging they may appear.

    It causes my wife some consternation, for if plans do not work out, I merely change the plans rather than become preoccupied with the fact the original plan failed.

  6. #156
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    the last 3 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    I can see how you may have misinterpreted tgy's posts, but I do not think he was intentionally meaning to diminish the value of your experiences.

    Accepted... again, my apologies please....

    It appears, to my experience, that people have inherent temperaments that influence their outlook on life. The old nature or nurture argument, to me is merely two sides of the same coin. It appears to me we are influenced by both nature and nurture. I have been blessed with a temperament possessed of inherent tenacity that does not allow me to give up under any circumstances, no matter how apparently discouraging they may appear.

    It causes my wife some consternation, for if plans do not work out, I merely change the plans rather than become preoccupied with the fact the original plan failed.
    Oh yes, that has been my exact attitude my whole life, including the part about my wife.

    Even tho the last 3 years nearly wiped us out, we did survive and now it's all about how can I get "it" all done, I can't afford to miss anything. Still - even tho we did survive and even have the potential to thrive in the future - my "mind spirit" was trampled a good bit and has not bounced back to match yet. Yeah, I know - after a good year it'll be like it never happened.

    I guess what I was saying is that in my 50's and younger I never did consider that we mite not survive... so this is a new thing for me...

    Again, thanks for your kind words!
    .... Skip

  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Skip J. View Post
    Hello taai....

    I don't have any adrenaline left anymore to discuss these serious issues "properly", I may never get it back.
    I would suggest that adrenaline is exactly what one does not want fueling a clinically-oriented discussion, because emotion has no place in that;

    Quote Originally Posted by Skip J. View Post
    If you wish to delude yourself that the students you treat for pay are not the same exact students (as in the "same glass of water") that come to us recreational instructors the week after your clinical employer cuts them off for their insurance running out...... then go right on ahead....
    LOL - wow, that's like a whole barrel-full of assumptions right there man! well, maybe when you are ready to let those go, then you first might consider asking me about the nature of my practice, before you bring a bunch of preconceptions to bear; however, FWIW, when I was working with adults - I treat only kids right now - my employer never cut anyone off, he always worked something out for people in need (he's a practicing Buddhist, so considered it his oblligation to take care of people who were sincere but lacked the means for full payment); and during / since then I privately often treat people for greatly reduced amounts or even for free when they had no funds; your cynicism may be well-founded based on your own experience, but don't presume to lump me in with the elements of my profession that I find equally as distasteful just because it suits your agenda;

    Quote Originally Posted by Skip J. View Post
    You know, I really find ironic in the extreme that you value the health benefits of your parents participating in recreational activities, any recreational activities.... and blow all the rest of us recreational instructors off as of no benefit to students...
    talk about ironic, again, you are projecting like crazy here man - maybe it's your own inadequacy issues clouding your ability to think critically? I really don't know (or care)
    first off, I never dismissed what you do, instead, I put it in context - that's because there is no way that as a recreational instructor you are beholden to the same standards that I am as a licensed healthcare provider, and, as such, it is my responsibility to look at every modality I employ with a highly critical eye; meaning that I cannot afford to accept taiji in and of itself without conducting a detailed task analysis of what comprises the practice; only after having done that can I draw any conclusions about its relative efficacy as compared to other forms of movement; if you recall, the title of this thread is taiji as MEDICINE - if taiji wants to hold that status, then it needs must be subjected to the same rigorous criteria as any other modality making the same claim; meaning that, although I can get excited about how well it "works", at the same time I also have to discern why, and if in fact there might not be better ways to achieve the same or better results with other approaches (be they qigong, yoga, Alexander, Feldenkreis, Mentastics, etc.); and while I have no doubt that what you teach benefits your students greatly (again, find where I suggested that it did not), it's just a whole different ball of wax when dealing with clinical diagnoses (e.g. - what taiji / qigong movements would you have a student with a grade 2 L5 spondylolisthesis avoid? emphasize? - see what I mean?)

    Skip, you seem like a sincere guy, but you are taking this discussion waaaay to personally for a clinical discussion

  8. #158
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    Hey Gene;

    Sorry about the threadjack!

    Got carried away again I guess...
    .... Skip

  9. #159
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    ok

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    Skip, you seem like a sincere guy, but you are taking this discussion waaaay to personally for a clinical discussion
    Don't take this wrong taai - I know you put a whole lot of effort into writing it - but I'm not gonna read it.....

    peace brother...

    catch you on the backside...
    .... Skip

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    ur parents r awesom
    can i borrow them
    dude, just bear in mind that I am describing them in one light - there's a whole other bunch of not so awesome that I could relate as well...(as could they!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Skip J. View Post
    It seems that is what I thought of taai's posts, but my thinking has gone off the rails.. I stand corrected, my apologies to all concerned...
    no need to apologize, I am not offended

    Quote Originally Posted by Skip J. View Post
    I do like the positive comments taai has said about his own learning and his own school and especially his Master; I'll restrict myself to those words I guess..
    hey, as you like - personally, I find it more interesting to consider things others say that I don't sit well with...FYI, I disagree w/my sifu on a lot of stuff as well - certain viewpoints of his I object to significantly; and I've told him this as well (privately, of course - I wouldn't jack him in a public setting, of course)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    I can see how you may have misinterpreted tgy's posts, but I do not think he was intentionally meaning to diminish the value of your experiences.
    exactly - diminishment is relative - clinical application has many more requirements than recreational, that's a fact; it doesn't mean recreational doesn't have intrinsic value, just of a different nature

  11. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Skip J. View Post
    Don't take this wrong taai - I know you put a whole lot of effort into writing it - but I'm not gonna read it.....
    well, you haven't really read anything else I've posted before all that thoroughly, why start now?
    but sure, go ahead, throw out a whole bunch of stuff and then don't read the answer, it's the internet equivalent of fingers in ears going "la la la"; it's a great way to kill any possibility of actually having a discussion (although, you obviously read enough to find a part to cut and paste) - pretty lame; not very taiji either
    anyway no real effort - took about 5 minutes; and, when I post, I don't have any expectations that someone will read it or not, that's on them, I have no attachment per se


    Quote Originally Posted by Skip J. View Post
    peace brother...

    catch you on the backside...
    doubtful
    Last edited by taai gihk yahn; 03-02-2010 at 10:53 AM.

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Skip J. View Post
    Oh yes, that has been my exact attitude my whole life, including the part about my wife.

    Even tho the last 3 years nearly wiped us out, we did survive and now it's all about how can I get "it" all done, I can't afford to miss anything. Still - even tho we did survive and even have the potential to thrive in the future - my "mind spirit" was trampled a good bit and has not bounced back to match yet. Yeah, I know - after a good year it'll be like it never happened.

    I guess what I was saying is that in my 50's and younger I never did consider that we mite not survive... so this is a new thing for me...

    Again, thanks for your kind words!
    I too had a crisis in my life about 11 years ago. It is way to long and complicated to go into detail, but suffice it to say it changed the entire direction of my life, some of it is better, some of it is worse.

    At the time, even though I rationally knew it could have been worse and the anxiety I experienced would one day pass, the emotions I felt were not along those lines. It was sort of like going to work and finding out they saved all the stuff you hate the most for you to do. You do it because you know you have too and you will be better off if you do, BUT I AIN'T GONNA LIKE IT!!!!

    ......and I'll be glad when it is over!

    So I hear you my friend. I know it is hard! I just kept telling my self, "And this too shall pass!! And this too shall pass!!""

    Keep the faith!

  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well you obviously read enough to find a part to cut and paste ; anyway no real effort - took about 5 minutes; and, when I post, I don't have any expectations that someone will read it or not, that's on them, I have no attachment per se
    Whew!!! That is good news to hear, since I don't actually EVER read anything you post....I use my psychic abilities to provide me with the proper insights, you know the one where I bend over and stand up real fast? Well that one, I have found the concussions I experience from falling over lead to some very interesting insights!

    For most people it knocks the sense out of them, for me, I have found it knocks the sense INTO me!!

  14. #164
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    amen brother

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    .....It was sort of like going to work and finding out they saved all the stuff you hate the most for you to do. You do it because you know you have too and you will be better off if you do, BUT I AIN'T GONNA LIKE IT!!!! ......and I'll be glad when it is over! So I hear you my friend. I know it is hard! I just kept telling my self, "And this too shall pass!! And this too shall pass!!"........"Keep the faith!
    Thank you Scott; we will find a way to get it all done; and in a year we will look back and feel like it was a good one I know...... two years from now it will be like it never happened....

    And taai, I admit to baiting you on the Type 1 diabetes question there's no doubt. You can protect me from the internet bs anytime you wish, I will not take offense...
    .... Skip

  15. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Skip J. View Post
    And taai, I admit to baiting you on the Type 1 diabetes question there's no doubt. You can protect me from the internet bs anytime you wish, I will not take offense...
    again, I was not baited - if someone wants to make clinical claims, then they have to back those claims up in an appropriate manner; if someone wants to discuss taiji / qigong in a clinical manner, then it requires a certain perspective be applied; that said, it is not my inclination per se to protect you or anyone from anything and if you take offense or not, it's not my concern, if it's in regards to this sort of discussion, because nothing I direct is personal - I simply apply my professional capacity towards the discussion; if people like Hendrick can't understand what I am talking about and start going ad hominum, that is their issue, not mine;
    bottom line: if you make a claim, you should be able to back it up, plain and simple; if Hendrick had just said "in my personal experience, this is what I have seen Dr. Ma do", in stead of intimating that your nephew would likely have a good outcome from treatment by him / her, then it would have been appropriate, and you can make your own informed decision accordingly (btw, Hendrick's not the only one "guilty" - many licensed healthcare professionals make exactly the same error, be it from personal bias / not looking critically at something, and making assurances they ought not make)

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