Straight Form (Wah Lum)

[Yao Sing]

SoCo, I have a closet full of vhs I have to preserve, some of it is going bad.

Keep them away from magnets like speakers, TV's, computer monitors, etc.

[Black Mantis]

Hey, you guys seem to know a lot about this form. So far its one of my favorites. I guess I like it because I'm a big guy and can generate a lot of power from my waist. But here's my question: What is the windmill-looking technique trying to do? And for the closing (the part where you seem to be blocking upwards 4 times alternating hands) is that the defense for the "windmill?"

[Corwyn]

Hey, you guys seem to know a lot about this form. So far its one of my favorites. I guess I like it because I'm a big guy and can generate a lot of power from my waist. But here's my question: What is the windmill-looking technique trying to do? And for the closing (the part where you seem to be blocking upwards 4 times alternating hands) is that the defense for the "windmill?"

the windmill - explained to me - is a break out from a grab.
After pow choi, x block side wave the right hand is grabbed the fist pull in
the windmill is breaking the grab and the next 2 are striking down. then upper cut.

not sure about the scoops but I don't see it as blocks against the windmill as those are aimed at temple/ eye brow in a scraping knuckle kind of strikes like the middle of First Form (after rooster, toe kick, crescent kick) I'll have to ask.

[Yao Sing]

But here's my question: What is the windmill-looking technique trying to do?

There are a few possibilities here, from breaking a grab to throwing. Another app is breaking through the defense and striking.

And for the closing (the part where you seem to be blocking upwards 4 times alternating hands) is that the defense for the "windmill?"

That can also be used as a grab break as well as blocking defense. Something to keep in mind with moves like these two - you aren't locked into a specific number of times to repeat the move. In the form it might be done 2, 3 or 4 times but in practical usage it depends on how it's used and what's needed.

The problem I have with forms is they tend to lock people into one way of doing things when you should really be practicing the moves on their own and playing with variation and different usages.

Don't even think of asking Master Chan how many times to repeat these moves.

[Yao Sing]

Nobody found or posted a video yet? I hate when others can't join in the discussion but without at least seeing the form it really narrows down the conversation.

[Black Mantis]

You know, you guys are really opening my eyes to a few things. I never thought about using that technique as a defense, but it does make sense to me. Here is the hyperlink to straight form. The fellow doing it seems a bit rusty, but I guess it can serve as a good reference point.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...nelID=70463535

[Yao Sing]

Ok, to set things straight here that's not you doing the forms right?

Now I realize this guy is a beginner and has a way to go cleaning this up but IMHO the sloppiness is partially a result of not practicing the individual techniques. I believe that's why they get lost in the forms.

Lot's of mistakes on both videos. Rushing through the form when you aren't ready to do it fast loses all the detail. These sets should be done one move at a time until you have a handle on the movement and what you're doing.

That's why drill are created based on the moves in the form. Each form should have a set of drills both single and 2-man to help put it all in perspective.

Well, that's my soapbox rant for this thread. Any specifics you want to discuss?

[mantid1]

video cameras, computers and the internet are great............untill you have students posting half assed forms on the net.....then they are not so great.

It doesnt matter if its WL, seven star, 8 step...this type of thing does nothing for a style.

No, its not my student but I feel for his instructor.....whoever it is.

[Yao Sing]

Well I was just hoping for a clip so others unfamiliar with Wah Lum can join the discussion. I never thought I'd regret it.

Whenever a WL thread gets started it's narrowed down to only those familiar with the style and that leaves out a large portion of the posters here. Just wanted to open it up for everyone.

Unfortunately the moves aren't done well enough to really get a good idea of what he's (supposed to be) doing.

I'm going to take a chance and say this guy is not learning from a certified WL instructor. It looks to me like someone with a year teaching in his backyard or students teaching students (my apologies if I'm wrong).

[Yao Sing]

mantid1
I don't think it's actually a bad thing having beginners post a clip but when you're beyond the initial form of a style I think you should look a bit better. I looked at both clips and he never should have gone on to Straight Form when First Form still needs a lot of work. But then that's just me and how I do things.

So what do the outsiders think? Are we too harsh on a noob?

[Black Mantis]

No, Yao, that's not me. I searched hard to try to find this form on the web and this was the ONLY clip I could find. I kind of feel bad for posting this kid's vid now. In retrospect, maybe I shouldn't have. Well its out there now.

Your idea about breaking the form down into individual techniques and making drills from them is a great idea. What I've been doing for the last few weeks is concentrating on the parts of the form that don't "feel" right. Here is a list of what I've been doing and the corrections I've made:

1. The first arm grab to elbow break, back elbow, spin to low block---I shortened my back leg a little (for balance) and used more waist to spin into the low block. Then using my momentum and energy from the waist, I power into an uppercut

2. On the first turn after the side wave punch & low block--I step with my right leg, plant, then power into a cum choy (before I was not leading with my footwork and it just felt weak)

3. After the double gwa choy--I added more snap by using the momentum from the low block into the inverted punch. I kind of see this now as me retreating and then suddenly attacking. Almost like a sneak attack.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm a little excited here.

[Yao Sing]

Great to hear your digging into the form piece by piece and making corrections. Don't worry about posting the link to the clip, he put it up in public in the first place. I'm sure he's proud of what's he's doing. Not his fault, he doesn't know any better.

One of the things I initially liked about Wah Lum was the deceptive combos and moves. That comes up a few times in the forms, appear to retreat and spin into attack.

Keep working it and holler if you have questions. But keep in mind always go with what your Sifu tells you first and make sure he's ok with you getting info from outside sources. If he's a good teacher he won't mind but he's your teacher, not me or anyone else on the Internet.

[Black Mantis]

Thanks, Yao.

[Corwyn]

I have to say that you guys were WAY TOO nice on the critique of the video.
Sadly there was one other video up, I think it was utube, that was even worse if you can believe it. I tried to find it but I guess the kid took it down.


In the kids defense, I've seen this in my previous style as well as in other things -
Kids tend to fall into faster is better mentality and by nature tend to lack some of the patience required to pay attention to all the monotonious details

I see this with my son too - He learns the steps of a new form in like 5 minutes and assumes that remembering the steps in order EQUALS knowing the form
(you have to give him more slack though, he's only 13, at 18+ he should have outgrown that) Getting him to SLOW down and pay attention to all the little things is the hardest thing.

I can also understand why one would want to post a video and I think this should be encouraged, but I think it also needs to be controlled. Schools should make/have some kind of policy about reviewing things being put up on public display I think. (just my 2c)

I know that I am not anywhere near good enough to be a representative of my style, probably not even for 8 chain punch , but I've aged and with age comes a more realistic level of self criticism that the young in general lack.

I try to do every form 3 ways.
1) what I call Tai Chi speed - really slow and focusing on every move, stance and hand position.

2) slow but with FULL power. So every punch kick or block is done with tension and power.

3) full speed. While it will look like the video for a long time I thing doing things as fast as you can really does show you whether you KNOW the form or just able to remember what comes next.
When you can put all 3 together you've learned the form.

[masherdong]

I try to do every form 3 ways.
1) what I call Tai Chi speed - really slow and focusing on every move, stance and hand position.

2) slow but with FULL power. So every punch kick or block is done with tension and power.

3) full speed. While it will look like the video for a long time I thing doing things as fast as you can really does show you whether you KNOW the form or just able to remember what comes next.
When you can put all 3 together you've learned the form.

This is how I do all my forms. I find that this helps me to LEARN the form and I actually find things that relate to another technique or concept. I know what you are saying about students thinking faster is better. All I can say is that "Speed Kills", if you do not know what you are doing. My old kenpo and kajukenbo instructors used to tell me, "go as fast as you can, but as slow as you need to so that you dont break good form and structure." Good words to live by.