Classifying Shuai Jiao

[kamikaze]

Could Shuai Jiao ever be classified as an internal art? It is said by some that SJ/SC is just a tougher form of Tai Chi. Not only that, there have been instances of Tai Chi practitioners holding their own in SJ/SC matches. What do you think?

[scholar]

Shuai jiao was the Wu Jianquan family art before Jianquan's dad Quanyuo learned Taijiquan from the Yang Luchan and Yang Panhou. The Wu family were Manchu military officers, bannermen, and shuai jiao competitions were very popular in Beijing while the Manchus were in power.

There are many throws trained in Wu style taiji that look a lot like shuai jiao.

[mawali]

If you study New Age taijiquan but learned shuaijiao later, your taijiquan would be the best through intergration and synthesis!

As the previous person stated, shuaijiao was the art of choice of many Palace Guards and the common soldiers and was part of Manchu culture. That along with archery and horsemanship allowed them to conquer various tribes! It is when they became settled, they lost that edge!

[Three Harmonies]

Shuai Chiao was so popular because basically every fight ends up in the clinch range, which lends itself to grappling quite easily and nicely. Everyone, every style, in every culture pretty much developed a similar grappling system because it is innate to wrestle / grapple.
Taiji is 80% grappling oriented because of the comments above. Check out Brian Kennedy's latest article in "Classical Fighting Arts" magazine for one of the best Taiji articles ever written!
"Defining" something is frivolous in this case, but it all depends on your definition of "internal?" If by "internal" you mean proper use force via the connective tissue, stretch - rebound effect, facilitated by proper muscoskeletal structure.........
Then yes.

[kamikaze]

The main reason for this post is because I've already done some training in Shuai Jiao, and was looking at other styles that could enhance my skills. The movements (forms) on Taiji really looks like it could show me various way to apply my techniques. Sensitivity training (for me) has come from my training in Wing Chun (chi sao/chi gerk), and wrestling. Most of my SJ training has involved drilling in various techniques, and equipment training, but very few forms. I think learning these taiji forms into could really help me my sparring sessions.
What do you think?

Shuai Chiao was so popular because basically every fight ends up in the clinch range, which lends itself to grappling quite easily and nicely. Everyone, every style, in every culture pretty much developed a similar grappling system because it is innate to wrestle / grapple.
Taiji is 80% grappling oriented because of the comments above. Check out Brian Kennedy's latest article in "Classical Fighting Arts" magazine for one of the best Taiji articles ever written!
"Defining" something is frivolous in this case, but it all depends on your definition of "internal?" If by "internal" you mean proper use force via the connective tissue, stretch - rebound effect, facilitated by proper muscoskeletal structure.........
Then yes.

[Three Harmonies]

I think sparring will help your sparring. Grappling can be included. Forms teach body method, which is certainly important. But that is it. The skills aquired in free form training, with resistant partners, cannot be attained any other way.
Many have misconceptions about sparring...sparring can be any activity where your partner is issuing some level of resistance to your technique. Does not mean you have to go balls to the wall kill each other. I find my free rolling sessions in BJJ invaluablely carry over into the rest of my practices.
Hope this helps,
Jake

[Mukei]

HI…. I think I may Help with your Question about Shuai Chiao being Internal. My honest Opinion is YES!
At first learning the Basics, it does seem to be a hard style. However, as you go on with your Training you will see that it is an internal Art .Shuai Chiao Is in Taiji. All threw the Form you will see it. I have studied it for some time and very fond of Taiji Chuan. GM Tung Sheng Chang Proved it to me watching him Doing Taiji as well as seeing him throw ….It was Very Impressive. I cherish the Fond Memories …..
Look at the Shuai Chiao basics carefully then look at Taiji…. Taiji Will Enhance your training With Shuai Chiao. and with Push hands in Taiji. I have studied Wu, Yang and Chen (New Frame), as well as GM Changs Taiji. All I have found some good Applications and throws!!!

Tim McKitrick

[kamikaze]

Thank you so much everyone. What are some of the key differences in the Wu, Yang, or Chen Taiji?

HI…. I think I may Help with your Question about Shuai Chiao being Internal. My honest Opinion is YES!
At first learning the Basics, it does seem to be a hard style. However, as you go on with your Training you will see that it is an internal Art .Shuai Chiao Is in Taiji. All threw the Form you will see it. I have studied it for some time and very fond of Taiji Chuan. GM Tung Sheng Chang Proved it to me watching him Doing Taiji as well as seeing him throw ….It was Very Impressive. I cherish the Fond Memories …..
Look at the Shuai Chiao basics carefully then look at Taiji…. Taiji Will Enhance your training With Shuai Chiao. and with Push hands in Taiji. I have studied Wu, Yang and Chen (New Frame), as well as GM Changs Taiji. All I have found some good Applications and throws!!!

Tim McKitrick

[Mukei]

Some of the key differences in the Wu, Yang, or Chen Taiji?
Some Movements Differ from One style to the Next. For Example, Some Practitioners make larger Circles in the beginning Stages of their Training while Practicing the form .Seniors Students will make their movements more Refine and Smaller circles will be noted . If you have done any Reading, you would of found out the Chen Family is where Taiji was first discovered, in the Chen Village. Other styles are Break off points and so We have Chen, Yang, Wu , Sun .In My Opinion, there is a good Book called THE DAO OF TAIJIQUAN ( The Way to Rejuvenation) By Jou,Tsung Hwa I Think it’s a Good book and give a good Description of the Different Styles. Lots of Very Good info. You can see for yourself which Style would be Good for you. After doing Shuai Chiao, You can start putting it together … I hope this helps you out …. Good Luck with your Training …….. Tim McKitrick