Chi Sao; don’t over work the mind (strong stance)…

[Graychuan]

Here is a question that someone asked me on my site…




First of all, you must understand the concept behind what you’re trying too accomplish… Well, in the case of chi sao you should have had that understood in the SLT system (don chi sao)…

If you’re having trouble staying soft when playing chi sao, I suggest that you really begin to explore the don chi sao within your wing chun structure, if the mechanics of the don chi sao never promotes redirection through complete softness and sensitivity, then I suggest try another structure until you can find a way too naturalize or redirected energy through complete softness and sensitivity…

The main thing is too make sure that the mind is not over worked, meaning that your overall structure dealing with forward sensitivity must stay connected to the your stance, and your upper and lower extremities must stay connected to the floor through your stance…

If there’s no strong connection as I mention just above, then the mind will become over worked and the hands will become tense or tight, then one will begin too fall off the track or the road that guides his structure directly to the right offensive and defensive line that needs to be occupied when under pressure, and if one just cant find it, then its a structure problem…

Your chi sao structure must fit and work within your stance, just as the gears works within a watch, if the gears do not fit correctly within the watch, then one will never begin to understand what time it is… The concept of understanding true wing chun attacks is through timing and having a strong connection to the floor, by connecting the upper and lower extremities through you stance, it will help promote good softness and forward sensitivity; hence, very good defensive structure with very little thought pattern…

The main key as far as the Woo Fai Ching system dealing with chi sao, is the fook sao… If one cannot master the understanding or ideal dealing with the fook sao, then he or she will always have trouble dealing with double line sensitivity, because in the start of you chi sao studies the fook sao is always misunderstood… Why? Because the fook sao do nothing but ride or should cling to structure, and the other side or arm cycles from tan to bong; in other words that side have something too do, in which helps keeps the mind pre-occupied while almost losing the ideal or mechanics dealing with the fook sao… Just master of try to understand the mechanics of the fook sao through total softness and forward sensitivity, then I’m sure you’ll find what you’re looking for…

The more one can control his fook sao through good forward sensitivity and line control, the softer and stronger his overall chi sao structure will become…


Ali Rahim.

I find that knowing how the YI can be easily unsettled and continuity of awareness breaks down at certain points in the Chi Sao exercise makes me aware of how the vision and eyes can be fooled when dealing with such 'small intervals in time' and trying to look at fighting movements/energies. (funny how in high level martial arts discussion we speak of intervals and energies and such....kinda the same as when physicists and quantum mathematicians speak of intervals and time when dealing with the small things...). But this being what it is what are your thoughts on this, Sifu Rahim...
It is a known fact that the hand is quicker than the eye. The hand can move faster than the eye can track. Just try to track a fastball from a pro or try to catch the slight of hand from a master Mage. This is also true in a fight. 'Its always the one that you dont see that gets you'. Kinda reminds me of the Kuen Kuit...'Good Wing Chun is felt but not seen.' Anyways, Chi Sao, being a sensitivity excersize, developes a way to track your opponents intentions with your own hands(Sao) so that you dont fall behind.
This is why it is so important to get proper bridge contact immediately or to attack thier attack with a bridging movement to occupy space (Bil Gee). After that we maintain that range with moving stances and bridging(Chum Kil) in order to stay in the proper followthrough range. At this point we use the basic hand postures (SLT) to end the fight.
Wing Chun as a training system teaches us from the inside out(SLT,CK,BG) but in the event of a fight we move outside in as I described earlier. This way...the closer we get to an opponent the more comfortable we should become.
Chi Sao is the way we bring it all together. When an attack is engaged, natural reaction always gets our hands up and we make contact with something. If that 'shape' or 'energy' at that moment triggers the muscle memory of a trained and powerful technique and our followthrough is supported by the proper structure, then the art comes alive and there is no need to be caught up in the eyes.
There is a Kuen Kuit that says something like ' Attack the emptiness '. This is not an emptiness in vision...its an emptiness in sensitivity and asking energy. How much asking energy do we need to activate Jing Lik and not overwork the mind(YI)? Well I remember some old masters of the Supreme Ultimate Fist saying something about 2 ounces of force. Once our Chi Sao senses a differential of 2 ounces either way our structure should adjust accordingly to neautralize, take over lines, support double arm control, etc. After all....WCK has a Taoist root does it not?

If it takes only 2 ounces of force....then why worry about using muscle since its the muscles that tense up and slow us down when the mind is stressed?

[Ali. R]

The two ounces of force as you talked about only comes from a strong understanding of integrity structure… It’s the happy medium between structure and connection…

Meaning when contact is made there will be emptiness between forward vector forces without losing overall structure, yours and your opponent’s…

Your job is too feel or fill in that emptiness just as one does when playing with a sliding thumb puzzle, just with so very little energy and with strong structure awareness and body unity, operating within a very good strong stance…

Using up to two ounces of force mentally, sometimes even less is more then enough, in which can actually stop an all out attack…


Ali Rahim.

[Graychuan]

The two ounces of force as you talked about only comes from a strong understanding of integrity structure… It’s the happy medium between structure and connection…

Ali Rahim.

As you are well versed in the CMA (Chinese Martial Arts) I would like your opinion on this....
Would this 'happy medium' be anything at all like the 'silk reeling' energy of T'ai Ch'i Ch'uan Pushing/Sensing Hands? I was taught from my TCC Sifu years ago that the Silk Reeling was that soft and fragile 'continuity of technique or flow' that is the meduim of sensitivity itself. It was so fragile(like reeling a single strand of raw silk) that any disturbance or unsettling of the YI would break the flow just as any extra force too fast or tension would snap the strand of silk.

I know I could be stretching it a bit here but I seem to see a lot of similar concepts when TRUE KNOWLEDGE is at the table. Especially when it deals with CMA. And I jump at any opportunity to clear up my own understanding of things.

[Ali. R]

He has taught you very well, as I have seen from your many tai chi students and skills… What you just explained and identify silk reeling in a metaphysical standpoint, wonderful for chi development and could also be applied in a martial standpoint …

When working in a martial standpoint far as that very same concept (silk reeling), the body must stay very relaxed and work almost like a whip, but when contact is made there will be a emptiness within thought pattern or offensive and defensive structures, you must swallow forward vector force with forward sensitivity, just as one is silk reeling in a metaphysical standpoint…

When using this concept (silk reeling in wing chun), you must execute within a one-inch or half-inch radius far as nullifying his intentions (defensively, with a two ounces jam), while welcoming and swallowing his forward vector force with consecutive integrity structure…


Ali Rahim.

[Graychuan]

Thank you for this feedback. I have often wondered about the subtleties of Chi Sao like this and after getting this information I can now see why Blindfolded Chi-Sao is not that big of a deal. If one understands the concept and the art can come to life then its easy to see how being Blindfolded is just a natural progression in sensitivity. I think this is what I was trying to get at with 'not being caught up in the eyes.'

If there is a true understanding of Chi Sao then the eyes are not the priority anyways since we know they will fall behind. I have seen some demos of Blindfolded Chi Sao in the Tube and although I am not knocking the skills of the peeps involved, I dont get my panties wet about it because it seems to me that if they learned correctly they should be able to do this anyways.

Also I know you have it is a part of our training curriculum. I find it intersting that its a part of our regular curriculum and is available to all students who go through your curriculum properly but it seems like a show-stopper or an ace up the sleeve for peeps who want to put on shows.

OOOOPS! I almost forgot...WE are the ones who get accused of putting on shows.

[Ali. R]

Thank you for this feedback. I have often wondered about the subtleties of Chi Sao like this and after getting this information I can now see why Blindfolded Chi-Sao is not that big of a deal. If one understands the concept and the art can come to life then its easy to see how being Blindfolded is just a natural progression in sensitivity. I think this is what I was trying to get at with 'not being caught up in the eyes.'

If there is a true understanding of Chi Sao then the eyes are not the priority anyways since we know they will fall behind. I have seen some demos of Blindfolded Chi Sao in the Tube and although I am not knocking the skills of the peeps involved, I dont get my panties wet about it because it seems to me that if they learned correctly they should be able to do this anyways.

Also I know you have it is a part of our training curriculum. I find it intersting that its a part of our regular curriculum and is available to all students who go through your curriculum properly but it seems like a show-stopper or an ace up the sleeve for peeps who want to put on shows.

OOOOPS! I almost forgot...WE are the ones who get accused of putting on shows.

Good post Chris, and how very true that statement is…


Ali Rahim.

[Graychuan]

Chi-Sao with Sifus Francios and Jah'Ki.

[Ali. R]

Chi-Sao with Sifus Francios and Jah'Ki.

Its always nice to see people that I’ve taught for over ten years or so workout, and truly have development in what they’re doing, hats off to you gentlemen...

Cheers,


Ali Rahim.

[k gledhill]

what is the idea they are trying to develop doing that ?

[Ali. R]

I just don’t have time right now, and the only point that I care about is that they know...

Take care,


Ali Rahim.

[bennyvt]

blind folded chi sao works becvause of constant forward pressure towards your opponents centre. I thought it was in everyones ciricullum. Yes without relaxation all movements would be slow, but without force or muscular strength the hands would not move or resist anything. VT is about being in the centre, not using too much force or not using no force. I remember I was teaching a guy the tan sao and punch as a beginner drill, he was a high level in tai chi and the first time I swung at him he was that relaxed that the punch went straight throught the block and smacked him, I said "what happened why didnt you block it", he said "you said relax" I replied "yeh but not so much thsat you stop breathing, you need enough force to nullify the oncoming force". I found this when I went to hong kong with certain people. They were that relaxed that your hands went straight through and hit. Any extreme is bad in VT either too much force or not enough. By using VT princibles we are able to nulify much greater force by using structure and positioning but its like catching a ball and catching a 20 kilo dumbell, you relax with the ball and throw it straight back, but you have to resist the dumbell to stop it from going through your hands and hitting you.

[Ali. R]

Chi Sao Seminar ‘Louisville 08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zCRHB6AtM

Take care,


Ali Rahim.

[Ali. R]

There’s no real technique in chi sao just structure; high and low fook, tan and bong (defensively), and pak, lop sao are known offensive movements but you can use defensive and offensive movements to attack with, but let's just keep it even more simple then that…

It’s about how well those structures and just those structures (high and low fook, tan and bong) alone can fit within your stance, and while using them, will they all stay connected to the floor?

This way techniques will come out all on its own, and the flow of what you’re doing will be based on how well you understand the forms, your stance,and your chi sao structure … When you make up techniques within your chi sao structure you’re putting the cart ahead of the horse…

First things first (Chi/energy—Sao/Block) and that’s learning how to stop the strike when it counts… Anyone can throw one, but can you stop one when one is thrown at you?


Ali Rahim.

[Ali. R]

If the fingers or hands become tight, then the arm will become tight, and if the arms become tight, then their bodies will become tight, when the body is tight then the lungs will become tight… And when all that happens, then the throat will become dry… Hence instant fatigue…

You must use structure and structure alone not the hands… When catching a ball the fingers will spread and automatically tension will set in the arms…

Open your hand and turn your palm towards you, then spread your fingers out, then turn them away while looking at the back of your hand, the tension that you see and feel is the energy that you do not want to have in your look sao/phoon sao structure… Never use the hands first when redirecting energy from the look sao structure…

Use structure to beat structure, use the hands only when one breaks or moves away from the look sao cycle to strike…


Ali Rahim.

[Ali. R]

I think just about everyone here would agree; when they first heard of wing chun they heard of things like; “it’s a fighting art in which uses sensitively and it teaches you to stay soft”, and so and so forth…

When you do wing chun or while playing chi sao, do you promote and perpetuate softness and sensitively, just like everyone talks about? Do you have rigidness, tension in the hands and lost of balance when playing chi sao? If so, then you’re going against everything that really brought you to the art (softness and sensitively)…

Remember there are those who have trained for years, and who are bitter as hell just because of this very subject (chi sao), and when they see people that can when they cant, they will do and say strange things to undermine that subject as a whole, just because they themselves cannot execute something that would truly enhance their wing chun ability…

They simply will not let go and trust in structure to grain softness and sensitively, and most will never get it because their stance will never promote such ideals…


Ali Rahim.