What Wing Chun has taught me

[MrBump]

Really odd arguments going on here...

Are people suggesting that the only way to learn how to fight is to go out onto the street and start trouble? Because otherwise, the only argument is over which inherently flawed training system is less good...

[zuti car]

Kambun Uechi , founder of of Uechi ryu karate style practiced only katas(forms) and and special form of trainig for strengthening the body (kote kitai) . He did not learned to figt thru sparring or fighting , he praciticed only karas( 3 katas - sanchin , seisan , sanjuruoku0 . He had two fights during his life, in first fight he killed two men , and because of that he left China , in a second fight he seriously injured the man who attacked him .

[SAAMAG]

And this version of history is backed up how? Hopefully not by word of mouth--because we all know how reiliable that is.

And no one is saying to go around the streets and fight people. We're saying the only way to be able to use your system of fighting, to find your strengths and weaknesses in regards to that style, is to get in there and rough it up. Meaning that the training MUST provide drilling and moreso fighting/sparring against resisting opponents who are of the same skill or better.

The reason people are probably so vehemently saying this in the wing chun forum, is because we all practice wing chun in some form or fashion, and probably don't like seeing the crap that's getting all the press right now.

[AndrewS]

Terence writes:

I don't even like the "tool" analogy you used (any longer - though I once used it myself)! That's part of the TMA "view" which separates everything, including movement (tool) from function(result). They're skills: movement to get the result (your ability to *do* something, to get a result). So why not call them skills? When you learn basketball do you learn and develop "basketball tools" then leanr to use those tools? Or do you learn the skills (the things you need to be able to *do*) that you need to play the game? The trouble with calling things by something other than what they are is that it only encourages confusion

Are you a Heidigger fan now?
;-)

Strength, speed, power, endurance- these are tools. They can be used to develop other tools- jab in boxing, jab in MMA, shoot in wrestling, shoot in MMA, etc.

While you are correct that A does not equal B, A equals A, I think we are quibbling over language. Put GPP qualities in the center of a big Venn diagram, SPP off in the direction of each individual combat pursuit, and skills outside off each SPP bubble, with areas of overlap at each level (and make the whole thing in 3 space)- that's a rough idea of the hierarchy of what consider 'tools'.


SJR writes:

What I meant was, if the boxer wins, obviously with strikes, it will be base don attributes developed via drills, not sparring

.

Mmm, I think hours of sparring people, learning to deliver power on the fly and keep out of range using footwork would play a significant role in that outcome. Do you know any martial arts naive twins?

Andrew

[MrBump]

Fighting and sparing aren't the same thing. So again, it comes down to the degree of realism that you're willing to settle for, if you want to use that argument.

Personally I think that it's easily possible to engage in hard training that gets you close to fighting, without the dangers or social irresponsibility that fighting brings.

[k gledhill]

I became Mr Beans evil twin

[Mr Punch]

I'm more lover than fighter for sure bro ...

I like to think that's where my expertise lies too...

Anyway, no worries bro, fair enough answer. Like I said, I was just asking you what you thought gave you any insight into the subject of reality as you'd already said you weren't quite at any level of reality in your own training paradigm. Your mention of contact sparring and the rest of that post has answered that question.

And sure, I was comparing UFC to street fights and to WC training but as I pointed out to HW8, the MMA training, even for a rank (and file) amateur like me was far more intense than any of the numerous WC lines I've witnessed, so I don't think it's unfair to compare them. Of course, according to HW8, this just means I've never seen The Real Wing Chun ... which is, of course, utter delusional bollocks.

[WaveWingChun]

I am taught that drills are important and done ad naseum so they become second nature to you and you don't have to think about it. If you follow Tiger Woods around he probably hits 500 8 irons with a draw to them... in a row. Tennis players do the same thing where they hit specific shots time after time in practice so that the muscle memory is there for competition. Of course, Tiger Woods wants to prove himself in competition. I don't take WC for competition, so I'm not really worried about proving its worth in competition.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I am taught that drills are important and done ad naseum so they become second nature to you and you don't have to think about it. If you follow Tiger Woods around he probably hits 500 8 irons with a draw to them... in a row. Tennis players do the same thing where they hit specific shots time after time in practice so that the muscle memory is there for competition. Of course, Tiger Woods wants to prove himself in competition. I don't take WC for competition, so I'm not really worried about proving its worth in competition.

Competition is not just about proving, its a test ground, the highest caliber testing ground and it is vital, even more so for the novices.
testing in your own kwoon is not the same thing.