Chi Gerk

[SAAMAG]

I really understand what you’re saying about the multiple kicks, but power will come if your balance is good…

I can break two baseball bats with my shins while going in two different direction while standing on one leg, it may take some longer too develop it though, it can be done… The ankle, knee and waste joints can only move so-many ways before collapsing to pressure…

If the stance is good there’s a lot of things that one can do… while in YJKYM, I will have my students push me as hard as they want, and they cannot push me from my stance, my back stays straight and my feet do not move…

If one can master his balance as well as power by standing on one leg, then through focus and agility one will easily find those collapsible points within the joints of the leg of his opponent, by keeping their opponent pre-occupied with sight, (the hands) and while the leg really starts too work on your opponents balance (collapsible points)…

Take care,


Ali Rahim.

Sounds pretty impressive. I'm having a hard time visualizing what you mean when you say "two different directions" though. Most people that break a bat with a shin kick are doing so in a circular motion and following through...so I'm trying to figure out what other direction you'd be going in.

Do you happen to have any video footage of this? I would be interested in seeing it!

[k gledhill]

sticky / sticking ? splitting hairs for what ? and bats dont hit back

standing on one leg is to build balance yes , nobody said anything about sticking to a leg in a formalized drill while hopping from one leg to other etc..., wedging etc..sweeping isnt 'sticking'....



like I said if its what you do ..do it. I could care less , Ive been doing VT for 25 years too , so what ?

[Ali. R]

Sounds pretty impressive. I'm having a hard time visualizing what you mean when you say "two different directions" though. Most people that break a bat with a shin kick are doing so in a circular motion and following through...so I'm trying to figure out what other direction you'd be going in.

Do you happen to have any video footage of this? I would be interested in seeing it!

No, I never recorded it, and it’s been at least four years sents I’ve done it, almost every other day Ill still condition my shins, but that might make a good recording also, thanks for the ideal…

Ill do a circular motion just as you mentioned, then Ill disengage that same leg from the follow through and push my shin straight upward (off a slight pivot of the supporting leg) as if I’m kicking someone in the groin…

You will need three people too make this work, two if your on a lawn somewhere because the handle of the bat is pushed into the soft grass, therefore you would not need one too step on the handle for the upward vertical vector or one can use cement blocks as well…

You seemed to be genuine in your approach that could very well prompted me in making a clip, I’m not looking for validation because I’ve never gotten it here among my so called peers (validation) on anything that I’ve produces here on this forum…

I will only present the footage as a how too clip, and not a look what I can do clip, and then again as you can see Ill only tick others off by making such footage, just as always…

I’m standing to your right of this diagram…


http://detroitwingchun.com/blocks_are_turned_a_30.htm

Take care,


Ali Rahim.

[SAAMAG]

No, I never recorded it, and it’s been at least four years scents I’ve done it, almost every other day Ill still condition my shins, but that might make be a good recording also, thanks for the ideal…

Ill do a circular motion just as you mentioned, then Ill disengage that same leg from the follow through and push my shin straight upward (off a slight pivot of the supporting leg) as if I’m kicking someone in the groin…

You will need three people too make this work, two if your on a lawn somewhere because the handle of the bat is pushed into the soft grass, therefore you would not need one too step on the handle for the upward vertical vector or one can use cement blocks as well…

You seemed to be genuine in your approach that could very well prompted me in making a clip, I’m not looking for validation because I’ve never gotten it here among my so called peers (validation) on anything that I’ve produces here on this forum…

I will only present the footage as a how too clip, and not a look what I can do clip, and then again as you can see Ill only tick others off by making suck footage, just as always…

I’m standing to your right of this diagram…


http://detroitwingchun.com/blocks_are_turned_a_30.htm

Take care,


Ali Rahim.

Yea...still don't get it.

People on this forum like to debate, myself included. Outlandish claims and unrealistic notions are the things that peeve me personally.

But breaking bats with shins is not uncommon...and I can appreciate the conditioning being that I practice MT as well. I've never seen anyone break two separate bats though in one kicking motion; so that's why I was curious. If you ever decide to try it again, take some footage of it! But since you're such a big guy, make sure they're big bats too....

Just be careful...I've just now started re-conditioning my shins from my training hiatus, realizing that bruises take a lot longer to heal now when I'm 31 than they did when I was 18. BTW...what method do you use for conditioning? Do you do the rolling pin method or do you actually smack em' with something? I do both...and try to kick really dense bags (like the bottom of a hanging bag).

[Ali. R]

I've never seen anyone break two separate bats though in one kicking motion; so that's why I was curious..

Disengage from the follow through are the words that I used, so Ill doubt that you’ll see it in one motion…

Yeah, I do get it; you probably was not around when I first came on the scene, it was told by others here that I had no knowledge of kung fu or chi sao understanding, and everything that I presented was only made up by myself and had nothing too do with wing chun…

And I was attacked (persons, family, teacher and students, as well for years), and hated by just about every member here for over 5 years based off of two gentlemen’s opinion (I only became an enemy after I stood up for myself.) in which they continue to show there own lack of understanding dealing with this art (WC)… Yeah I do understand, and wouldn’t want too open that can of worms again…

I’ve been conditioning my shins for over 25 years with heavy drumsticks and with the supporting basement poles of my homes and with my wing chun leg condition as well…


Ali Rahim.

[Liddel]

I've had three of Yip Man's students and a few others tell me that there was no standing on one leg circling exercise taught by YM and that it was made up by some students.

I have a Chi Geuk drill. Although its different to the Chi Guek ive seen at most other schools. Akin to leg fencing.....

My sifu learnt it from GM Ip in the 50's. He would train with Sifu Lok although not that often in front of Si Dai.

It certainly doesnt have high kicks (above waist) and its has no aspect of circling as we deal in straight lines from a triangle.

We utilse the waist, knee and in small part the ankle for generating force.

Its about redirecting kicks, recovering initiative and being able to change from one action to another with fluidity and ample force.

One example of actual use would be if i used Far Guek to block the inside of a thai kick to the upper leg. (you may not call it Far Guek but it looks similar to a MT leg block)
Then immediatly turned the waist and lowered my horse into a side kick/stamp on the knee (or thereabouts) of the opponents lead leg.

Im fairly pragmatic about its use. While the sticking aspect would be of less benifit in application (low percentage) like Chi Sao it teaches a student the relationship between action and reaction only with the legs. It has greatly improved my timing with kicks after being kicked

DREW

[kamikaze]

I think chi geuk is a good exercise for checking and unbalancing your opponent. It also stresses the need for students condition their shins in order to really perform this exercise (thanks Ali. R). There's going to be a chance of legs colliding when fighting in-close.

[couch]

I think chi geuk is a good exercise for checking and unbalancing your opponent. It also stresses the need for students condition their shins in order to really perform this exercise (thanks Ali. R). There's going to be a chance of legs colliding when fighting in-close.

Conditioning of the legs is important as well as learning how to tense your tibialis anterior at the right time in the right conditions. (Pulling your toes towards your head to tighten the 'shin muscle').

There are lots of ways to do this: kick the wooden dummy's leg, the bottom of your heavy bag, etc.

[LoneTiger108]

Both as an old style sifu and one who had to depend on wing chun for personal survival and then later economic survival in HK- Ip Man appears to have taught different things to different folks and understandably of course for a fee. Often one private student didnt know what another was learning.That is why hearsay can be quite confusing.

Ip man himself in his younger days used his legs a lot more than he did in later years..

joy chaudhuri

Interesting point Joy, and I'd have to agree (although I have no way of 'knowing' how Ip Man practised as a child)

The other comments that interest me here are the disclaimers to circling legwork?! Huen Gerk/Toi was common in my early training, but again it was only taught to certain students (who could lift their legs!)

There are many things that Ip Man would have practised as a youngster that he may not have passed on to his students in his elder years, but he did practise 'with others' and this is where you will find varied approaches.

Most 'legwork' I have seen externally was practised within a 'Plum Flower Wooden Man' set I learnt. But these days just the term 'plum flower/blossom' in reference to WCK is controversial. I find that many people have varied interpretations, and nobody has talked my language yet!

I practsed a 'huen toi' free-standing, on one leg while the other circled around the middle arm of the Jong. Excellent for waist sinking strength and hip power imo, not to mention 'essential' for lower back alignment. I haven't seen this sort of exercise interacting with a partner for years...

[Tom Kagan]

like I said if its what you do ..do it. I could care less , Ive been doing VT for 25 years too , so what ?

Where did I even discuss your technique versus what I do? The Word definitions are profoundly different. This isn't splitting hairs.

25 years - I guess you're done learning, right?

Sticking –verb (used with object)

• piercing or puncturing with something pointed, as a pin, dagger, or spear; stab: to stick one's finger with a needle.
• killing by this means: to stick a pig.
• thrusting (something pointed) in, into, through, etc.: to stick a needle into a pincushion.
• ...

sticky -adjective

• having the property of adhering, as glue; adhesive.
• covered with adhesive or viscid matter: sticky hands.
• ...

'Sticky' is what you don't want to have (i.e. what you alluded to by mentioning 'hand chasing'), and I agree with you.

[Ali. R]

I think chi geuk is a good exercise for checking and unbalancing your opponent. It also stresses the need for students condition their shins in order to really perform this exercise (thanks Ali. R). There's going to be a chance of legs colliding when fighting in-close.

I love too help anyone at anytime and if that’s what I’ve done, you’re welcome almost every time…

Take care

Ali Rahim.

[Phil Redmond]

. . . . . The other comments that interest me here are the disclaimers to circling legwork?! Huen Gerk/Toi was common in my early training, but again it was only taught to certain students (who could lift their legs!)...

Huen Geuk is definately a part of WC training. It's at the beggining of the TWC SLT and it's on all most lineages's Biu Jee form.

[LoneTiger108]

Huen Geuk is definately a part of WC training. It's at the beggining of the TWC SLT and it's on all most lineages's Biu Jee form.

Thanks Phil, but I think you can see that what I'm saying is that I practised this type of 'legwork' on the Wooden Man first, before I even saw the forms you mention.

Although it's not at the beginning of my SLT, nor CK, it is in my BJ.

Chi gerk, these days, is as much of a mystery as chi sau is to most. I haven't seen much evidence of it to be honest...

[Ali. R]

This is an interesting clip that I forgot I’ve posted, dealing with some kicking drills and if your balance is good then you well grain a lot of power within your kicks or leg blocks while training on one leg, as long as one can take it…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUFORS8zhO8


Ali Rahim.

[SAAMAG]

This is an interesting clip that I forgot I’ve posted, dealing with some kicking drills and if your balance is good then you well grain a lot of power within your kicks or leg blocks while training on one leg, as long as one can take it…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUFORS8zhO8


Ali Rahim.

Cool...I do the same movement on the wooden dummy!