Aerobic = Bad

[Drake]

I meant immediately

[Scott R. Brown]

right...even Miyagi said one must have balance

but, no one has yet to answer my question of what he meant by 'continuous'?

point being: I vary my cardio from 20-40 minutes as I can and as time allows...letting my daily life dictate whether I do a faster 20 or a slower 40.

and, if I increase the intensity at both ends of the spectrum then how can I plateau?

Usually no more than 15-20 mins of intense intervals! You could do it twice a day if you wanted to get in more time rather than double the time. There are also time limits on weight training. Generally your testosterone levels peak at about 60-90 mins. If you go longer it reduces your testosterone level. It is better to train say, 40 mins twice a day than 80 mins all at once. You should take 30-40 mins between weight training workouts. The Romanians, who train 6-8 times a day rest for 40 mins between successive workouts.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Usually no more than 15-20 mins of intense intervals! You could do it twice a day if you wanted to get in more time rather than double the time. There are also time limits on weight training. Generally your testosterone levels peak at about 60-90 mins. If you go longer it reduces your testosterone level. It is better to train say, 40 mins twice a day than 80 mins all at once. You should take 30-40 mins between weight training workouts. The Romanians, who train 6-8 times a day rest for 40 mins between successive workouts.

I don't see how anyone can do even 15 min of HIIT, not if they are truly intense.
The vast majority of studies (like the Tabata) that show the huge benefit of HIIT are ones where they intensity is so high that even 8 minutes can be too much.
There are benefits to longer bouts of moderate HIIT, but I don't know of any studies done that show that they come close to the HIIT that is usally sited when showing the benefits of HIIT.

[Scott R. Brown]

Well, I am not referring to Tabatas just 15 mins of intervals!

While I do perform my own aerobics in 15-20 mins of intervals, I don't actually believe it is necessary to follow this protocol for most people. It is more for those who want to optimize their testosterone levels.

I perform a series of Kick punch intervals that I call the 8 Fist. Eight sections of Eight different strikes changing directions every four steps using front kicks with each forward step. Each section involves different punching combinations. It takes from 15-20 mins. tro complete the entire set. Each of the eight sections is an interval of about 2-3 mins depending upon my pace. Actually I am getting ready to do it now! You will perform 250 kicks and about 500 strikes when the series is completed.

If you are really interested I can probably find my source for the 15-20 min interval sets. I read it in the last few months. And I have the article on the Bulgarian weight training program somewhere. It was the Bulgarians and not the Romanians.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yes, I would love to read that article.

Thanks.

Where did you see the Tabata's intervals being done for 15 mins?
The protocol, if I recall, is 8 "sets" of 20 seconds of HIIT with 10 seconds rest between.

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://cbass.com/Tabata_GXP.htm

An interesting comparision of Tabata abd another HIIT.

[Scott R. Brown]

I just finished!

16:23 today with a few mins off to change into different shoes after the first two sections.

It wasn't a Tabata. I think it was located on T-Nation. I will have to look it up. I'll try to post the link later tonight. I have to take the baby to the Dr. soon and then sleep. I work nights.

The Bulgarian training program is from a NSCA Journal article from 1991. I have it on PDF, but I can copy and paste if anyone is interested.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The Tabata method is this one:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8...?dopt=Abstract

Its the one that everyone point to in regards to results but no one does !
LOL !!

[Scott R. Brown]

Ok here is the article I was talking about. It is from Chapter 6 of Chad Waterbury’s book, “Muscle Revolution” pp. 111-114 All Bolding is mine.

Developing the aerobic system

Aerobic metabolism is the primary energy system used with continuous activity. It takes over around the 6-10-minute mark during continuous muscle contractions. Since aerobic metabolism is very efficient, it can keep up with your energy demands for hours, as I noted earlier.

As it happens, your body uses multiple energy systems for most of the challenges you throw at it. Martial artists, skiers, and soccer players tend to get high marks for aerobic power, expressed as V02max. That doesn't mean they're out on the field chugging along at a continuous six-minute mile pace. It means that they use anaerobic glycolysis or even the ATP-CP system for short bursts, and use the aerobic system when they get a chance to slow down and recover.

So you need some aerobic-system development if you're going to succeed in sports like these. But you still have to use aerobic exercise judiciously. All the sports I just mentioned also require speed, strength, and power, and in some cases (football, for example) hypertrophy is helpful. But those four qualities are at risk any time you set out to do steady-pace endurance exercise.

I don't mean to say your muscles start shrinking the minute you lace up your running shoes. But you do have to be cautious; spend too much time on the road, and your body will preferentially develop its type I muscle fibers, which have the least potential for force production. On top of that, if you're combining endurance work with a high volume of other types of training, you risk generating too much of the stress hormone Cortisol, which can lead to muscle loss and fat storage.
So my recommendation for advanced athletes is the same as for beginners and intermediates: no more than 20 minutes per session of steady-pace endurance exercise, no more than three times a week.

Interval Training

For the beginner or intermediate, it offers a faster way to burn fat and strengthen your heart. For the advanced athlete, it presents a more sport-specific way to develop energy systems. Most sports involve starts and stops, constant shifts of speed and, by extension, shifts from reliance on one energy system to primary use of another.

And, aside from its functional, sport-specific qualities, it's also time efficient. Let's say you're pressed for time, and you can only devote 10 minutes to energy-system training. Now, 10 minutes of brisk walking isn't going to do much of anything; on the other hand, a flat-out sprint isn't the best idea either, since you don't have enough time to warm up properly. However, a series of alternating fast runs and brisk walks is possible, and I'd argue that it would be a better use of time for most trainees than 10 solid minutes of one thing or another.

But let's look at interval training in a different way, as a technique to develop endurance and burn calories without sending your body the wrong signals.
Here's what I mean: If you look at an elite sprinter, you notice that these guys have very muscular thighs. (As do the women sprinters, for that matter.) Sure, they build muscle in the weight room, but their sprint training has some effect. When you perform a maximal sprint for 10 to 20 seconds, you're primarily challenging your largest muscle fibers. That's great for them, and it can be great for you, if you're involved in any strength and power sport.

If these same athletes spent their time walking fast or jogging, they wouldn't be challenging their largest muscle fibers. Not only that, but research has demonstrated that long, slow activities can cause your muscles to make a transition toward smaller, type I, endurance-oriented fibers. You know by now that type I fibers are the worst at producing maximal strength and power. That's not to say that the type I la fibers won't come into play with walking—they certainly can. But they just won't get the type of work that leads to greater strength and hypertrophy, unless you're recovering from a serious illness or injury, and the muscles are so weak and atrophied that walking presents these fibers with a serious challenge
.
So by doing high-intensity intervals—sprints and recovery—you'll develop your body's most powerful fibers, rather than compromising them. And, because
you're also generating lactate in your muscles, you'll trigger growth-hormone release, which will help you burn more fat after your workout is finished. (The growth hormone release from sprinting is not huge, but any increase helps the cause.)

Here's a six-week interval-training plan for intermediate trainees and advanced athletes. This program will alternate between high- and low-intensity energy-systems training. Importantly, high-intensity training isn't limited to sprinting. Another excellent choice is rope jumping. For example, I'll have my intermediate-level clients jump rope as fast as they can for 15 to 20 seconds, followed by 90 seconds of walking around the room. Then they'll return to jumping rope, then walking, and so on. My advanced clients jump rope as fast as they can for 15 to 20 seconds, followed by slower rope jumping for 60 to 90 seconds. Any type of rope jumping is more taxing than walking, which is why I favor it for my advanced clients.


High-Intensity Interval Training (HUT)

Paraphrased by me here:

2-3 sessions a week, 15-20 second work interval with 80-90 seconds rest for 10-16 total minutes

Back to Chad:

You can work with this progression beyond six weeks, with two cautions: First, I'd use 20 seconds as the top end of your sprint work—more than that, and you won't be able to maintain maximal intensity, which means you'll shift past your ATP-PC energy system. Second, I wouldn't work for longer than 20 minutes per session.

That leaves two columns for further progression: you can keep shaving your recovery time until you get to a 1:1 work-recovery ratio. That is, sprint 20 seconds, recover 20 seconds, repeat. You can also increase your interval sessions, up to seven times a week. If you're really advanced, and really need the extra workouts, you can even do intervals twice a day, once in the morning and once in the evening.

But for the overwhelming majority of you reading this, three to four interval sessions a week is plenty.

I misquoted the Bulgarian Olympic weight training system a bit. This is from the NSCA Journal, Volume 13, Number 2, 1991

They train 45 mins. then rest for 30 mins. then train another 45 program. They do this for 3 cycles per day, Morning, Afternoon and Evening. The idea here is to maximize the production of testosterone without overtraining to the point of releasing cortisol which is the same reason avoiding doing extended aerobics sessions is recommended. Long distance aerobic training and extended weight training programs inhibits testosterone release, releases cortisol and inhibits growth hormone release.

In the end it is important to structure your training according to your goals. If you are planning to run a marathon you would want to train longer distances, but if you are a fighter it is not necessary and may be counter productive.

[sanjuro_ronin]

High-Intensity Interval Training (HUT)

Paraphrased by me here:

2-3 sessions a week, 15-20 second work interval with 80-90 seconds rest for 10-16 total minutes

That MAY actually mean 10-16 total minutes per week.
I do like Chad's stuff by the way.

As you can see by the link to the actual Tabata method, no way you are gonna go at 170% for 10 minutes.

Of course this is for the beginner, the person that has never done it so has no clue with HIGH Intensity means, so they will need more volume since they can't reallu up the intensity as much as they THINK they can.

They train 45 mins. then rest for 30 mins. then train another 45 program. They do this for 3 cycles per day, Morning, Afternoon and Evening. The idea here is to maximize the production of testosterone without overtraining to the point of releasing cortisol which is the same reason avoiding doing extended aerobics sessions is recommended. Long distance aerobic training and extended weight training programs inhibits testosterone release, releases cortisol and inhibits growth hormone release.

Sounds about right, though they don;t mention if they do the same exercise each session per day.
Then again, the vast majority are "enhanced" .

In the end it is important to structure your training according to your goals. If you are planning to run a marathon you would want to train longer distances, but if you are a fighter it is not necessary and may be counter productive.

Specificity for the win.

[Ronin22]

Hey Scott

Interesting read thanks for posting it

I was curious though if the author makes mention of any weight training program that goes along with the HIT training?


Thanks, appreciate it


Ok nevermind i've found a thread with a bunch of his workouts on it



http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=643686

[Scott R. Brown]

Here is an excerpt from the article in NSCA Journal Volume 13 Number 2 1991, by Bob Takano:

The basic unit of the Bulgarian coaching scheme for national team members is a 45-minute workout. This time frame is determined by the amount of time it is possible for the human male to maintain a maximum testosterone secretion level. I might add that they are dealing with highly selected human males, The first weekly workout is conducted on Monday morning. It is a snatch competition, with each athlete registering his best six single attempts. Abadijiev monitors theses attempts and logs them in a comprehensive diary. Athletes may attempt heavier singles if time allows. The athletes are then required to rest for 30 minutes by reclining and listening to popular music to allow the endocrines to be restored. The second workout is also 45 minutes and follows the same format as the first, with the clean and jerk being the practiced lift. The workout is concluded with maximum singles in the front squat. This concludes the morning training. Again, the heaviest singles are recorded by Abadjiev. The third workout takes place after lunch, and duplicates the first workout. A 30-minute restoration period follows, and then the fourth workout commences again with the clean and jerk and the front squat. Maximum singles are recorded. The fifth and sixth workouts of the day are duplications of the first and second and take place in the evening. Tuesday is a repetition of the Monday workouts, although lower results are not unexpected. Wednesday is a relatively light day. The first morning workout follows the same format as all the other workouts-a competition with six attempts. The lift performed is the power snatch. The 30-minute restoration period is then followed by the second workout of 45 minutes. The lift performed is the power clean and jerk, followed by submaximal to maximal singles in the back squat. The athletes have the rest of the day off. Thursday, Friday and Saturday are duplications of the Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday training sessions, with the heaviest lifts expected on Thursday. On Sunday there may be a morning workout, during which athletes can train in a less structured manner. Our group was able to observe the Sunday training. During this session, one of the 100 kilogram lifters worked up to a 220-kilogram power clean followed by a single back squat with 305 kilograms. Neither lift appeared to be a maximum effort. We were also treated to a 200-kilogram front squat by a 16-year-old, 67.5- kilogram athlete.

[Drake]

I have trust issues with Bulgarians.

[Oso]

Usually no more than 15-20 mins of intense intervals! You could do it twice a day if you wanted to get in more time rather than double the time. There are also time limits on weight training. Generally your testosterone levels peak at about 60-90 mins. If you go longer it reduces your testosterone level. It is better to train say, 40 mins twice a day than 80 mins all at once. You should take 30-40 mins between weight training workouts. The Romanians, who train 6-8 times a day rest for 40 mins between successive workouts.

hmmm, I wonder if my daily work qualifies at interval training on a usual delivery it takes us 10-15 minutes to move a tub in to place. usually it's just two of us moving anywhere from a 400-1000 pound cube....enh, probably not as we don't usually walk briskly between the 5-10 second bursts of strenth/power heaving on those *******s.

I think the HIIT interval set I did also came from tnation but I couldn't find it there now so I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure it went like this:

Work/Rest
20/30
30/60
40/90
50/120
60/150

I did it on a stairclimber, maybe part of the problem was I was only doing lower body and not whole body.

the chart I had pulled from wherever only went up to the 60 minute work phase.
when I did it I increased the work rest periods up to 90/240 as the last...that was hard.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Here is the thing about HIIT, you CAN'T do more, even if you wanted to.

HIIT is like running the 200 meters as fast as you can, stopping for 10 seconds and doing it again and repeating that 8 times.
Its a full blast, balls to the wall, give it all you got EVERY SINGLE time, burst of pure energy.
Typically the first 2 maybe even 3 "sets" or bouts can be done, after that you feel like you are gonna puke out a lung EVERY SINGLE set/bout.

I read an interview with the athletes that did the Tabata protocol and they were colligate athletes if I remember correctly, already high level and ALL of them said that the Tabata methods was the hardest thing they ever done, all were totally exhaust at the end.

And that was after "4 minutes".