Lohan School of Shaolin.....

[LFJ]

it also about being honest.

[Wildwoo]

it also about being honest.

Okay? You are being honest about what? Honesty would be you saying that you know nothing about the school? Many traditional schools in Chinese systems offer a curriculum based on the learnings of the teacher. For instance my teacher's teacher was originally a Hung Ga exponent from HK but he had friends from other styles and they exchanged. Our main style is Northern Shaolim, but we also practice a few sets from 7 Star Mantis, Cha Fists and other essence styles. Being familiar broadens the scope of the practitioner and offers a series of options. Although my teacher is a Northern Shaolim Exponent these other styles are included in or course curriculum.
Is this a red flag? No this is our school.

[LFJ]

so, you're going to honestly tell me that this one guy is a master of 7 or 8 different systems?

baksiulam, hunggakyun, chen style taijiquan, yang style taijiquan, baguazhang, xingyiquan, and then however many styles of praying mantis?

you can have experience in some. its easy to pick up a form or two here or there, but to have a deep understanding of their principles and the ability to effectively apply their techniques takes more than that.

i find it highly improbable. in china people dont cross-train so broadly like that. they spend years and years on one such intricate system to develop their skills to master the style. no one would try to master 7 or 8 different systems. and some of them are completely different! its not that easy. and even if they have a little experience in those styles, they recognize that they havent put the dedicated time into each of them to be able to teach the system competently. especially when you have masters of those systems to do that- and if you've only learned a form or two, its kind of a joke.

i saw some videos by the way and it looks like just that. the chen style taijiquan looks like they were just going through the movements. like you learn a form easily. just move your body in another way. and it was quite stylized too. i'd only expect the rest to be the same. technical knowledge of the forms but no deep understanding of the principles or application ability.

but the biggest red flag is the name of the school. "lohan school of shaolin"? explain that one, please.

none of those styles have any direct relation to the shaolin temple, but the name makes money. i understand.

but most importantly no one knows the full luohan system anymore! so claiming to teach a full luohan system of shaolin, and naming your school off of that, is complete bs, even if we give them the mastery of all the other styles. this is just not possible.

[Wildwoo]

so, you're going to honestly tell me that this one guy is a master of 7 or 8 different systems?

baksiulam, hunggakyun, chen style taijiquan, yang style taijiquan, baguazhang, xingyiquan, and then however many styles of praying mantis?

you can have experience in some. its easy to pick up a form or two here or there, but to have a deep understanding of their principles and the ability to effectively apply their techniques takes more than that.

i find it highly improbable. in china people dont cross-train so broadly like that. they spend years and years on one such intricate system to develop their skills to master the style. no one would try to master 7 or 8 different systems. and some of them are completely different! its not that easy. and even if they have a little experience in those styles, they recognize that they havent put the dedicated time into each of them to be able to teach the system competently. especially when you have masters of those systems to do that- and if you've only learned a form or two, its kind of a joke.

i saw some videos by the way and it looks like just that. the chen style taijiquan looks like they were just going through the movements. like you learn a form easily. just move your body in another way. and it was quite stylized too. i'd only expect the rest to be the same. technical knowledge of the forms but no deep understanding of the principles or application ability.

but the biggest red flag is the name of the school. "lohan school of shaolin"? explain that one, please.

none of those styles have any direct relation to the shaolin temple, but the name makes money. i understand.

but most importantly no one knows the full luohan system anymore! so claiming to teach a full luohan system of shaolin, and naming your school off of that, is complete bs, even if we give them the mastery of all the other styles. this is just not possible.

What is Mastery Bro? Are you a Master of Martial art? Can we see some video of your Chen Style? People below your level will applaud & those above you will smile knowingly. Do you think everyone who teaches Martial art is a Master?
Ask any person you feel is Master and he will tell you he is far from being a Master. You don't have to be a Master to teach an art. If you practice long and patient, if you pass your knowledge along from a sincere space with a good heart with no intention to misrepresent your art, IMHO that is a good thing. It keeps the arts alive.

Why are you so bent on talking badly about someone you do not know LFJ? He owed you money or killed your dog?

I have met him. He is a decent man rooted in the love of the art with very little apparent ego. If you feel really strong about it, go to Las Vegas and pick a challenge match. If he looses tradition states he must abandon his art, then of course you could return here to gloat and hoot about how badly he sucks! I hate LV but I'd come to cheer you both with my jujubees and popcorn!!!

[LFJ]

a simple answer to the straight question would suffice.

we're talking about honesty and authenticity. being a good fighter does not mean you can apply the techniques and principles from several different styles. call me a purist but i do believe in cross-training. i just dont buy that dojo-hopping qualifies you to teach any specific art you've touched.

and keeping with the subject of honesty and authenticity as i said, even given the mastery of all those completely different systems, the shaolin luohan bit is bs. and given that, my overall impression of the school cannot be expected to be much greater. with or without increased knowledge of what they do or how wonderful a father the guy is.

and if there's no simple answer to the straight question but to suggest we put up the dukes, well that would only further prove the point and i've been known to be a fraud-buster in the past. but only in my neighborhood. they're literally everywhere. but if they're on the net, pointing out their bs is fair game.

[Wildwoo]

a simple answer to the straight question would suffice.

we're talking about honesty and authenticity. being a good fighter does not mean you can apply the techniques and principles from several different styles. call me a purist but i do believe in cross-training. i just dont buy that dojo-hopping qualifies you to teach any specific art you've touched.

and keeping with the subject of honesty and authenticity as i said, even given the mastery of all those completely different systems, the shaolin luohan bit is bs. and given that, my overall impression of the school cannot be expected to be much greater. with or without increased knowledge of what they do or how wonderful a father the guy is.

and if there's no simple answer to the straight question but to suggest we put up the dukes, well that would only further prove the point and i've been known to be a fraud-buster in the past. but only in my neighborhood. they're literally everywhere. but if they're on the net, pointing out their bs is fair game.

Well I was actually kidding LOL! But S H I T! Martial is as Martial does, why not put up the Dukes? You have so much to say and "if it is on the net it's fair game" right? I am a bit of a fraud buster myself. You have all of these long winded opinions about a Martial Art School, yet you are unwilling to get martial? You're just another internet big mouth writing checks with his mouth that, his a s s can not cash....

Perhaps the various arts at that school are taught by different teachers? I have no idea except we are related in the Northern Shaolim. I have seen classmates of his that are better at performance and applications but his students are pretty good at the various routines, which for me says a lot. Now Chen style is pretty specialized and frankly I don't consider it to be Tai Chi IMHO. I have been to Chen Village and had got a chance to feel applications from a Chen Master. The style is powerful and abrupt compared to Sun & Yang. It's essence is not found in the other Tai Chi systems. Chen is of another order.

With that said do you have some video of what a master is s'possed to look like?

I am talking about video of you??? "After all a simple answer to the straight question would suffice. We're talking about honesty and authenticity." Right?

[LFJ]

Well I was actually kidding LOL! But S H I T! Martial is as Martial does, why not put up the Dukes? You have so much to say and "if it is on the net it's fair game" right?

sure, i never said i wouldnt or havent before.

what i said is if we're talking "honesty and authenticity" and there is no honest answer then people always want to take it to the mat. which only further proves the point that they lied. because there's no other way around than perhaps proving something in a fight.

but even if they are good fighters and win a match or two doesnt mean they are any less full of sh!t when they think they have a deep understanding of more systems than you can count on your fingers and toes.

and even if they do, the shaolin luohan bit, again, is bs. no fight can disprove that. its a simple fact because no one knows that full system anymore, but then you have people naming their schools off of it and claiming to teach it. ($$$)

so even if i went there and got my ass kicked, it doesnt change the fact that they are bsing about shaolin luohan.

thats why we're talking about honesty and authenticity which should be proven by facts not by fists.

but still, as i said, i've taken challenge matches before and have issued them since i was a young teenager against bullsh!tters who had been in the martial arts longer than i had been alive. havent lost one yet and wouldnt be afraid to do it again. but i'm not going to pay money for it by flying half way across the country. i do it in my own backyard for free because bullsh!tters are everywhere.

besides, i was never talking sh!t about the guys fighting abilities, because frankly i've never seen him. i just doubt the competence in 7 or 8 completely different systems, and the qualifications to teach them completely by one man.

and i'm also pointing out the bs on the shaolin luohan, which hasnt gotten a straight answer. and i dont see one coming......

again its proven by facts not fists. trying to take it to a fight only further proves that. and trying to push me into a fight online from half way across the country when i'm pointing out facts is only trying to make me look like a b!tch in order to take the heat off the bullsh!tters that cant back themselves up with facts.

[Wildwoo]

sure, i never said i wouldnt or havent before.

what i said is if we're talking "honesty and authenticity" and there is no honest answer then people always want to take it to the mat. which only further proves the point that they lied. because there's no other way around than perhaps proving something in a fight.

but even if they are good fighters and win a match or two doesnt mean they are any less full of sh!t when they think they have a deep understanding of more systems than you can count on your fingers and toes.

and even if they do, the shaolin luohan bit, again, is bs. no fight can disprove that. its a simple fact because no one knows that full system anymore, but then you have people naming their schools off of it and claiming to teach it. ($$$)

so even if i went there and got my ass kicked, it doesnt change the fact that they are bsing about shaolin luohan.

thats why we're talking about honesty and authenticity which should be proven by facts not by fists.

but still, as i said, i've taken challenge matches before and have issued them since i was a young teenager against bullsh!tters who had been in the martial arts longer than i had been alive. havent lost one yet and wouldnt be afraid to do it again. but i'm not going to pay money for it by flying half way across the country. i do it in my own backyard for free because bullsh!tters are everywhere.

besides, i was never talking sh!t about the guys fighting abilities, because frankly i've never seen him. i just doubt the competence in 7 or 8 completely different systems, and the qualifications to teach them completely by one man.

and i'm also pointing out the bs on the shaolin luohan, which hasnt gotten a straight answer. and i dont see one coming......

again its proven by facts not fists. trying to take it to a fight only further proves that. and trying to push me into a fight online from half way across the country when i'm pointing out facts is only trying to make me look like a b!tch in order to take the heat off the bullsh!tters that cant back themselves up with facts.

Actually I am not trying to make you look like anything. You are doing a great job on your own.

[Wildwoo]

sure, i never said i wouldnt or havent before.

what i said is if we're talking "honesty and authenticity" and there is no honest answer then people always want to take it to the mat. which only further proves the point that they lied. because there's no other way around than perhaps proving something in a fight.

but even if they are good fighters and win a match or two doesnt mean they are any less full of sh!t when they think they have a deep understanding of more systems than you can count on your fingers and toes.

and even if they do, the shaolin luohan bit, again, is bs. no fight can disprove that. its a simple fact because no one knows that full system anymore, but then you have people naming their schools off of it and claiming to teach it. ($$$)

so even if i went there and got my ass kicked, it doesnt change the fact that they are bsing about shaolin luohan.

thats why we're talking about honesty and authenticity which should be proven by facts not by fists.

but still, as i said, i've taken challenge matches before and have issued them since i was a young teenager against bullsh!tters who had been in the martial arts longer than i had been alive. havent lost one yet and wouldnt be afraid to do it again. but i'm not going to pay money for it by flying half way across the country. i do it in my own backyard for free because bullsh!tters are everywhere.

besides, i was never talking sh!t about the guys fighting abilities, because frankly i've never seen him. i just doubt the competence in 7 or 8 completely different systems, and the qualifications to teach them completely by one man.

and i'm also pointing out the bs on the shaolin luohan, which hasnt gotten a straight answer. and i dont see one coming......

again its proven by facts not fists. trying to take it to a fight only further proves that. and trying to push me into a fight online from half way across the country when i'm pointing out facts is only trying to make me look like a b!tch in order to take the heat off the bullsh!tters that cant back themselves up with facts.

The guy is a good teacher so there is no heat to take off as he is no Bull****ter.
He learned Ku-So-Hui line Northern Shaolim. He learned Mo-Wong-Yuen line Mantis & Northern Shaolin. Where the rest of his learning comes from I don't know but you should chose carefully where, who and what you associate the word BULL**** with Bro.

So uhh no video of yourself performing traditional anything huh?

[Almost A Ghost]

and i'm also pointing out the bs on the shaolin luohan, which hasnt gotten a straight answer. and i dont see one coming......

That's because you haven't sent an e-mail or picked up a phone and called the school.

[LFJ]

no, ghost. its because i already know the answer to the shaolin luohan question.

and wildwoo, i've not said he isnt a good teacher or fighter. i have no experience to make that judgement. i've never seen the guy to make that personal call.

what i'm doing is making an overall judgement of such a school based on my observations thus far.

i doubt the 7-8 styles thing and i know claiming a complete shaolin luohan system is complete bs.

i believe i'm entitled to my opinion on the first account, and on the second, the facts speak for themselves.

[Almost A Ghost]

no, ghost. its because i already know the answer to the shaolin luohan question.

Then why do say you haven't seen an answer to that question? If you know why then why don't you enlighten us?

[Wildwoo]

no, ghost. its because i already know the answer to the shaolin luohan question.

and wildwoo, i've not said he isnt a good teacher or fighter. i have no experience to make that judgement. i've never seen the guy to make that personal call.

what i'm doing is making an overall judgement of such a school based on my observations thus far.

i doubt the 7-8 styles thing and i know claiming a complete shaolin luohan system is complete bs.

i believe i'm entitled to my opinion on the first account, and on the second, the facts speak for themselves.

You are indeed entitled to your opinion my friend.

My teacher used to be real rowdy, bust frauds, call BS on fake nonsense and just plain show people that our gung fu is not just a pretty dance but in fact very effective in real life situations. In the last few years he went 180 and embraces all the arts and associated practitioners and refuses to engage in conflict or competition. I told him today about this thread and he laughed saying "If a gecko wants to say he is related to a Tyrannosaurus Rex just leave him be and smile. What do you care how legitimate someone is or isn't? Leave them be and just do your thing and do it well."

It is the same for martial arts teachers who teach as a business. If the person is not misrepresenting the art what harm can he cause? Not every teacher will be the level of a Shaolin monk, but sincere practice, experimentation and teaching keeps the art and traditions alive. You say you are a purist? I am glad to see that Song Shan Fist is alive and well in St. louis, Mo. Are you so good in your art that you can be critical of others? I am not. Truth told though buddy, no matter how good you may be, if you post a video of yourself I am going to rip you a new one over for every flaw supposed, real, imagined and just plain made up. Why? Two reasons.

1) I am an obnoxious combative a s s h o l e
2) Because you have been such a tool through this whole thread

Traditional gung fu is dying in China believe me or not. Fewer young people are interested in martial art. They just want to make money and live a good life. Many teachers who were careful and suspicious teaching to westerners are now putting their hopes, dreams and the future of ancient systems that were traditionally "not taught to foreigners" into the hands of students from the west just to keep the arts alive!

Maybe you may want to rethink your criticisms and think in terms of the bigger picture. People who know nothing about traditional martial art come to forums like this to research toward making an informed choice.

You are however lame as it may be, entitled to your opinion LOL!!!!....

Now how about the video Buddy Give it to me baby, you know you wanna!!!

[LFJ]

Then why do say you haven't seen an answer to that question? If you know why then why don't you enlighten us?

you havent been reading along. there is no honest answer!

as was said, no one knows the complete shaolin luohan system anymore. there are only but a few forms and they arent the ones made up by this school. the others are only known through written records.

so the only answer is that if someone is claiming to teach a full shaolin luohan system and names their school off of that, they are completely bsing. and thats my whole point here.

If the person is not misrepresenting the art what harm can he cause?

right, but this school is named "lohan school of shaolin". i think thats completely misrepresenting shaolin because the school has no apparent connection to the temple and the luohan system is not completely known by anyone anymore. therefore, its a lie and misuse of the shaolin name ($$$). i would say that is indeed misrepresenting!

Are you so good in your art that you can be critical of others?

lets be clear, i've not seen the guy perform. i dont even know his name or what he looks like. i'm just analyzing the school based on the facts i've seen of it. namely, that i doubt one person can have a deep understanding and ability in 7-8 completely different systems, and more importantly that the shaolin luohan stuff is bs!

Now how about the video Buddy Give it to me baby, you know you wanna!!!

you know, i havent issued a challenge to that guy. nor has he challenged me. you are the only one trying to set up challenges and test fighting skills.

if you're so interested in my ability then why dont you come through st louis and try me?! if you pm me i'll tell you my location and you're more than welcome to come test me out. i'll be back from china the first week of july. the door is open.

[Wildwoo]

you havent been reading along. there is no honest answer!

as was said, no one knows the complete shaolin luohan system anymore. there are only but a few forms and they arent the ones made up by this school. the others are only known through written records.

so the only answer is that if someone is claiming to teach a full shaolin luohan system and names their school off of that, they are completely bsing. and thats my whole point here.



right, but this school is named "lohan school of shaolin". i think thats completely misrepresenting shaolin because the school has no apparent connection to the temple and the luohan system is not completely known by anyone anymore. therefore, its a lie and misuse of the shaolin name ($$$). i would say that is indeed misrepresenting!



lets be clear, i've not seen the guy perform. i dont even know his name or what he looks like. i'm just analyzing the school based on the facts i've seen of it. namely, that i doubt one person can have a deep understanding and ability in 7-8 completely different systems, and more importantly that the shaolin luohan stuff is bs!



you know, i havent issued a challenge to that guy. nor has he challenged me. you are the only one trying to set up challenges and test fighting skills.

if you're so interested in my ability then why dont you come through st louis and try me?! if you pm me i'll tell you my location and you're more than welcome to come test me out. i'll be back from china the first week of july. the door is open.

The only thing I am trying to set up is a line of reasoning that extends beyond the end of your nose.

So I guess no video?