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Thread: Wing Chun Attack/Defend Lines

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Chiang Po View Post
    Ok now, this is where I get to wondering what is going on. We are talking about WC, and then someone comes up and says something like this. My WC, or Hung Fa or what ever you wish to call it consists of all kinds of grappling and escape techniques. Rolling on the ground was something I had to learn. It was not left to my own devices. It is a common fact that the vast majority of individuals will not go into a Kung Fu stance or a Karate stance when confronted, but will just leap right on you and attempt to take you down. It would be insane to not train for this eventuality. And if you were to put yourself into situations where this could or does occur it would not take you long to figure that out.
    Do you not have any ground fighting techniques within your system?
    Cool, have you ever grappled with a person who specializes in grappling? That was the point made by Victor. If you wanted to learn to defeat a specific discipline wouldn't it be wise to study experts in that discipline? I didn't say "learn" from. I said study. Knowing your enemy is a very basic element of combat whether individual combat or large scale war. It's what's taught to military personnel and in military colleges.
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Redmond View Post
    Cool, have you ever grappled with a person who specializes in grappling? That was the point made by Victor. If you wanted to learn to defeat a specific discipline wouldn't it be wise to study experts in that discipline? I didn't say "learn" from. I said study. Knowing your enemy is a very basic element of combat whether individual combat or large scale war. It's what's taught to military personnel and in military colleges.
    I have been preaching that for years, dude, its so common sense that it amazes me that people don't get that.
    ( Speaking in general, not saying that Lee doesn't get it)
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  3. #48
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    >Originally Posted by Phil Redmond
    Cool, have you ever grappled with a person who specializes in grappling? That was the point made by Victor. If you wanted to learn to defeat a specific discipline wouldn't it be wise to study experts in that discipline? I didn't say "learn" from. I said study. Knowing your enemy is a very basic element of combat whether individual combat or large scale war. It's what's taught to military personnel and ?>in military colleges.

    By specializes, do you mean a person skilled in Jujitsu or something? If you are talking about the MMA fighters on TV, none of them are skilled as such as far as I am concerned. And to answer your question, yes, I have dealt with a lot of people that were grapplers. I made half my living with my fighting skills and over a 10 year period I worked in jobs where I was accosted almost daily by large and strong men that were determined to take me down and beat me. What I am refering to is reality based fighting, not ring fighting where both parties are fighting by the same set of rules and basic techniques. None of the altercations I have been in involved champions of the ring, but just how many of us here is ever going to fight people of that skill set?



    >I have been preaching that for years, dude, its so common sense that it amazes me that people don't get that.
    >( Speaking in general, not saying that Lee doesn't get it)

    Without seeming confrontational I hope, I will again say that WC already has all the grappling and ground fighting skills needed to fight a grappler. The grappling skills today, when you actually see grappling skills, comes from other forms of combat systems. Developed for sport rather than actual fighting. I trained in Jap jujitsu early in my life, and to my surprise, most of the ground fighting was almost exactly like my earlier WC trained skills. The differences were more about center line and such. Yes, center line. Can't get away from it really. Most of the wrestlers or grapplers are already using my set of fighting skills. So I am able to fight effectively on the ground. What I am asking is why your lineage of WC does not train for ground fighting? Is it not a part of your system? I noticed that you said it was not developed for it. Is that what you were told?

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Chiang Po View Post
    I trained in Jap jujitsu early in my life, and to my surprise, most of the ground fighting was almost exactly like my earlier WC trained skills. The differences were more about center line and such. Yes, center line. Can't get away from it really. Most of the wrestlers or grapplers are already using my set of fighting skills. So I am able to fight effectively on the ground. What I am asking is why your lineage of WC does not train for ground fighting? Is it not a part of your system? I noticed that you said it was not developed for it. Is that what you were told?
    Everything has elements of other arts in it, but in my opinion, my WC has very little of (if any) grappling. Maybe some Chi Na like a Japanese JJ, but again I don't waste my time trying to extract something from an art that I feel it wasn't designed to do.

    My WC is for close-range STRIKING combat. No holds (half-neck tie, though - not really a 'hold'), joint locks or ground grappling. Not saying I can't use my WC to counter a grappling attempt, but if I hit the ground with a BJJ guy, I'm fricked.
    “An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory.” – Friedrich Engels

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Chiang Po View Post

    Without seeming confrontational I hope, I will again say that WC already has all the grappling and ground fighting skills needed to fight a grappler. The grappling skills today, when you actually see grappling skills, comes from other forms of combat systems. Developed for sport rather than actual fighting. I trained in Jap jujitsu early in my life, and to my surprise, most of the ground fighting was almost exactly like my earlier WC trained skills. The differences were more about center line and such. Yes, center line. Can't get away from it really. Most of the wrestlers or grapplers are already using my set of fighting skills. So I am able to fight effectively on the ground. What I am asking is why your lineage of WC does not train for ground fighting? Is it not a part of your system? I noticed that you said it was not developed for it. Is that what you were told?
    I have a Shodan in Judo, having competed in it at a provincial( state) and national level, I have wrestled at the university ( collegiate) level and have had the chance to train in BJJ and MMA for close to 2 years.
    My grappling experience as noted above gives me some experience in regards to ground and clinch work.
    I do NOT consider myself a grappler.
    I think we have different views of what is "ground fighting".
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  6. #51
    "By specializes, do you mean a person skilled in Jujitsu or something? If you are talking about the MMA fighters on TV, none of them are skilled as such as far as I am concerned." (Lee Chiang Po)


    ***ULTRA-REVEALING remark. For you to say that means that either you haven't seen much mma fighting at all or that you have but you don't know what you're talking about.

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