MMA vs CLF

[Havick01]

I am finding it very hard to believe that CLF, or any other kung fu style, could win a fight against a good MMA practitioner. Does anyone have any opinion on this? Just curious.

I think it depends on your training, if you look at all the aspects of CLF it as grappling as well as great stand up. If you are frighting in the street 80% of the fights end up on the ground so that means you need a good ground game aswell. You must remember that CLF is a MMA style and it has great stand up and great ground game you just have to disect the style and train hard!

[Eddie]

I am finding it very hard to believe that CLF, or any other kung fu style, could win a fight against a good MMA practitioner. Does anyone have any opinion on this? Just curious.

It doesn’t matter what style you do, if your focus isn’t fighting, you wont be able to fight anyone really.
Same breath, there are some MMA players who also just do it for recreational reasons who will probably never have a real fight or a tournament fight, just the same as there are CLF players who would have the same.

And Havic, I don’t agree with you that 80% of all fights end up on the ground. That’s one statistic that grapplers usually throw around that has not yet been proven. If your theory is right, it would mean 80% of all fights (across the world in every culture). While this may be true in the usa, where you guys have wrestling in school etc, this might not be true in a country such as England where street fighting may look slightly different to other places.

But I also agree that good ground skills are very necessary.

If you train to fight, while keeping everything in mind, you should become proficient in fighting in a short time. Don’t let style vs style keep you occupied. There are plenty of unconditioned, well trained MMA fighters out there, and in the same breath there are plenty of untrained, well conditioned street fighters out there.

[nospam]

I agree with Eddie's comments above.

Training CLF or any MA isn't the same as training specifically for sports fighting unless that's your thang. If you want to fight professionally..then you need to train like a professional in all areas of that sport. It isn't a 3x's per week deal.

For those that train and apply fighting..then it's all good when they mix it up with those that don't. Yes..plz throw that devastating AxE kick to my clavicle, then we'll see just what happens.

100% of all fights end up on the ground..for one person anyways

nospam

[Havick01]

I agree with Eddie's comments above.

Training CLF or any MA isn't the same as training specifically for sports fighting unless that's your thang. If you want to fight professionally..then you need to train like a professional in all areas of that sport. It isn't a 3x's per week deal.

For those that train and apply fighting..then it's all good when they mix it up with those that don't. Yes..plz throw that devastating AxE kick to my clavicle, then we'll see just what happens.

100% of all fights end up on the ground..for one person anyways

nospam

Everbody has diffrent ways of training, im not here to say my way is the only way.
From my experience being a pro fighter and street fighter there are many was to mix it up. If i fight on the street my methods are going to be diffrent then the ring,nospan and eddie you both make good points. I still think its how you train and disect the art.

[nospam]

I still think its how you train and disect the art.

..dam skippy. If you only practised 3 techniques..snap kick, ping chop and gwa..and learned how to use these in a variety of situations, and trained these in a free form method, you'd probably be able to open a can of whoop @ss dam near every time you needed.

If your practise and training methods aren't optimum..adding in an entire system is paying your teacher's bills. But hey..MA equipment don't come cheap!

It's all good.

nospam

[Norman Conway]

I think the real question is if choy li fut whiping arms could be used effectivly with combos in mma. Most of the time we see only western boxing style punching, a bit of upper cuts, over fists, hammer fists (choy li fut's very good at those).
There's also the question of boxing style, choy li fut trains you to hold your shoulders parallel to the opponent, then to twist your shoulders in whiping movements to strike at the longest range possible. It reminds me of bruce lee's idea of savate/fencing, it'd never be the perfect theory, yet it seems like an overall style you could train hard in.
I'd pay money to see a guy who really does kung fu win some mma. He'd have to hold himself like a scientist.

[Eddie]

modern san shou (IWuF) only has a small curriculum of a few punches, few kicks, few throws and plenty of drills and variations.

its not about quantity, its all about quality

[nospam]

..choy li fut trains you to hold your shoulders parallel to the opponent, then to twist your shoulders in whiping movements to strike at the longest range possible.

Sorry - not the CLF I do.

It's all good.

nospam

[Eddie]

MMA is much more sport orientated and fighters are athletes more so than martial artists. To enter an MMA fight, you will need to have some ground fighting skills, even if you arent planning on going to the ground. We know that most kung fu styles don’t really do ground fighting, so it would mean that the kung fu guy who wants to enter an MMA fight, needs to do some additional training in ground fighting…. Perhaps BJJ. By doing this, he becomes a cross trainer …. Someone whos more open minded than your usual traditionalist, and therefore he would be considered a mix martial artists (as he mixes his kung fu with his ground fighting), albeit just for that fight.

I’m sure there are plenty of MMA fighters who did kung fu at some point or another in their fighting career. Some probably still use some of their stuff but don’t even realize it. Point is just, the very nature of MMA pretty much indicate that it’s a mixture of various styles……

Hence the name MMA ?

[WinterPalm]

MMA is much more sport orientated and fighters are athletes more so than martial artists. To enter an MMA fight, you will need to have some ground fighting skills, even if you arent planning on going to the ground. We know that most kung fu styles don’t really do ground fighting, so it would mean that the kung fu guy who wants to enter an MMA fight, needs to do some additional training in ground fighting…. Perhaps BJJ. By doing this, he becomes a cross trainer …. Someone whos more open minded than your usual traditionalist, and therefore he would be considered a mix martial artists (as he mixes his kung fu with his ground fighting), albeit just for that fight.

I’m sure there are plenty of MMA fighters who did kung fu at some point or another in their fighting career. Some probably still use some of their stuff but don’t even realize it. Point is just, the very nature of MMA pretty much indicate that it’s a mixture of various styles……

Hence the name MMA ?

Exactly...but I'd say more than a little BJJ is necessary...just like more than a little striking skill is necessary.
Realistically, as martial artists, any style that helps us fill in holes in our abilities makes us better. Even if we never use said skills, most Judoka use two or three techniques in competition but practice 60 or so...it's good to have variations and to know what to do.
Unless you get lucky or have an equally skilled opponent on the ground, chances are you will have trouble there.

To me it isn't about MMA vs. CLF or whatever style, who cares about styles anymore? Do what you do and learn some more! There is a lot out there, more than any man can learn, comprehend, or utilize, but closing your mind and refusing to grow and expand into other systems is silly.
Take your base, say CLF, and expand upon it with other skills but keep that your focus.
There is no CLF Vs. MMA...there is only two martial artists and in the end, one is better prepared. Once people give up their desperate deathholds onto one system and learn to see what else there is, martial artists will stagnate.

At any point in time you have to ask yourself, in what situation am I vulnerable? Then learn what to do in that position: even if you don't compete and haven't had a "fight" since grade school, most of us haven't, and we train for the love of martial arts.

Sadly, there are politics in martial arts but there are none in fighting...you either win or you lose.

[Eddie]

There is no CLF Vs. MMA...there is only two martial artists and in the end, one is better prepared. ....


.....Sadly, there are politics in martial arts but there are none in fighting...you either win or you lose.

What he said!!!! That deserve to be signatureized!

[HardWork8]

Dayum! Getting punched can turn a person gay?!

Yea, just take a look at some of the "functionally" trained martial artists who frequent these forums

[lianweizhi]

To me it isn't about MMA vs. CLF or whatever style, who cares about styles anymore? Do what you do and learn some more! There is a lot out there, more than any man can learn, comprehend, or utilize, but closing your mind and refusing to grow and expand into other systems is silly.

I'm cherry picking your statement here out of context, but only because I think some people may misinterpret what you've said.

You follow up this statement by saying to use a particular style as your core and then add to it as needed. The problem is not every style is complementary to your core style. Recently, I visited a Chang Quan school and while several techniques shared similar principles to CLF, there were some that were in direct conflict as well. In another example, power generation in Tae Kwon Do differs quite a bit from that in CLF - most CMAs are aware of the differences in executing kicks in CMA and several other martial arts, but even punching is executed with minimal waist turn to promote speed.

On the flip side, there are several arts that could be construed as complementary. Wing chun, for instance, is very different but I think several of the techniques in wing chun can be practiced/executed without conflicting with basic fundamentals of CLF. In these cases, the other arts provide some additional tools that my help to complete your game a little more.

The point is, however, that many styles differ from their very core and by diversifying too much you may end up not being particularly good at either style or even degrade your performance in one or the other. I believe in cross training can be good, but a practitioner should be wary of conflicting fundamentals that may disrupt their balance and detract from their bread and butter.

[HardWork8]

I'm cherry picking your statement here out of context, but only because I think some people may misinterpret what you've said.

You follow up this statement by saying to use a particular style as your core and then add to it as needed. The problem is not every style is complementary to your core style. Recently, I visited a Chang Quan school and while several techniques shared similar principles to CLF, there were some that were in direct conflict as well. In another example, power generation in Tae Kwon Do differs quite a bit from that in CLF - most CMAs are aware of the differences in executing kicks in CMA and several other martial arts, but even punching is executed with minimal waist turn to promote speed.

On the flip side, there are several arts that could be construed as complementary. Wing chun, for instance, is very different but I think several of the techniques in wing chun can be practiced/executed without conflicting with basic fundamentals of CLF. In these cases, the other arts provide some additional tools that my help to complete your game a little more.

The point is, however, that many styles differ from their very core and by diversifying too much you may end up not being particularly good at either style or even degrade your performance in one or the other. I believe in cross training can be good, but a practitioner should be wary of conflicting fundamentals that may disrupt their balance and detract from their bread and butter.

Great Post! I wish I could take it and PM it to every knucklehead on this forum but somehow I don't think the message would sink in as god knows I have tried.

Thanks again.

[lianweizhi]

Great Post! I wish I could take it and PM it to every knucklehead on this forum but somehow I don't think the message would sink in as god knows I have tried.

Thanks again.

Thanks for the kind words! I never really posted much in forums because no one ever seemed to respond to my posts. I've joked on some other forums that I am the "thread finisher", because any thread I posted on always seemed to end after I posted!