Is Ng Family Style real?

[mkriii]

Oh its real, its darn real. I got to thinking and I thought since the Shaolin Do guys have a thread thats pretty much occupied by Shaolin Do students why not start a thread for all the students of Grandmaster John Wing Loc Ng and Ng Family Style Kung Fu. If anyone here is or was a student of GM Ng's or a student of one of his students please introduce yourself and tell a little about yourself or say whatever you want.

I'll start by telling my name is Mark R. and I studied at Four Seasons Kung Fu Academy back in the mid to late 80's here in Lexington which is the school GM Ng owned. I trained there for almost 3 years before I left and went to Master John Dufresne's school (Dufresne's International Kung Fu & Wu Shu Academy) where I recieved my black sash. Master Dufresne is a 9th level black sash under Grandmaster John Wing Loc Ng. Sifu Dufresne moved back to Boston about 5 years ago but I still keep in touch with him through e-mails and he comes down this way every so often to do seminars, etc...

[kwaichang]

he prob stole all his stuff from SD then opened his school. So no it is not real KC

[shadowlin]

what is the point of this thread? KC, that wasn't very friendly

[kwaichang]

How friendly has mkriii been ???? Just thought he would like a taste of his own medicin for a while KC

[tattooedmonk]

What makes it real??

[Judge Pen]

I've been pretty friendly lately. I gave some tips to Shaolinwookie on how to do a kip up with no hands. And I've not bashed SD lately.




Now I guess I'll have to start bashing again due to Kwaichang yang's statement. The reason that Grandmaster Ng's style is real is because it was used by my sifu and his friend to kick about 8 or 9 SD students a$$ at a tournament back in the 80's when they were jumped by them at a team sparring division at Lexington Catholic. It's funny how those that were around way back then forget so easily. If Ng style kicked thier a$$ then it must be real. Now, I'll go back to being nice if everyone else will. If not then I'll break mid-evil.

The purpose of this thread was to have a place for Ng's students to go and talk about whatever, kinda like what all you SD people do.

The 80s tournament again. I preferred the respectful communications I had with your teacher on that topic. I've spoken to at least three different eye-witness accounts of that event, and it differs from person to person. But as I'm certain that you and I weren't eye-witneeses, we have nothing that we can contribute toward that dead-end discussion.

As for KC, I beleive what's good for the goose is good for the gander. While many SD people do use that thread to communicate and keep in touch, its peppered with comments from people just like you that like to stir things up. You should expect nothing less about Ng here.

As for the topic, I'm sure its real too. I enjoyed seeing some of the clips of your teacher, but I'll confess I have no idea what form or what style he was performing (you know the one with all the stomping). He showed excellent balance, flexibilty, and body control. Care to tell us what for that was, what system its from, and discuss the principles of the form, its trainign methids, fundamanetals of power generation, basic applciations etc so we can gain a persepctive on NG family style?

[Golden Tiger]

Just because work is a little slow this morning......

The reason that Grandmaster Ng's style is real is because it was used by my sifu and his friend to kick about 8 or 9 SD students a$$ at a tournament back in the 80's when they were jumped by them at a team sparring division at Lexington Catholic.

So you can at least have some of this dead horse story correct:

It was Lafayette, not Lex Catholic. 1984 to be exact.

It wasn't a team sparring division, it was an open spar, circle fight if you will brought on because M. Hiang was tired of your Sifu and others sitting in stands yelling smack and disrupting the tournement.

You Sifu and friend didn't kick about 8 or 9 students a$$. Your Sifu fought Bill Leonard, one on one, in a match refreed by Master Hiang. The clear winner is debatable. Both were bleeding after the match.

So Mark, please, when you decide to discuss the realness of your system, base it on reality, not on a story (that you don't seem to know very well) about an event that happened 24 years ago! Base it on the now, what you gain from it and what it has to offer you.

And yes, I was there......

[mkriii]

The 80s tournament again. I preferred the respectful communications I had with your teacher on that topic. I've spoken to at least three different eye-witness accounts of that event, and it differs from person to person. But as I'm certain that you and I weren't eye-witneeses, we have nothing that we can contribute toward that dead-end discussion.

The form you are talking about i can not view it at my work computer (my company has a block on certain sites). But I can tell you that Ng Family Style Kung Fu teaches 6 harmonies Here are a few e-mails directly from my sifu to me about 6 harmonies kung fu when we were discussing Ng Style and some other issues a while back.


E-MAIL #1

Dear Mark,

"The Mother of all Styles"? hehe-

What makes the difference; is the Harmony that exists between the 3 internal styles . For instance- Tai Chi is based on simply Yin and Yang neg./pos. ect....

Yin and Yang in Change is Ba- Gua Zhang but only pertaines to the Palm Changes specifically - however it is based on Taoist elemental changes pertaining to Palm changes. The only thing that makes change possible is the Elements thus;
Xing-I based on 5 elements like- Earth, Water, Fire, Metal, Wood -But this style like Ba-gua is only pertaining to 5 fists---However elemental changes are universaly exepted within the Tao- these elements have both Yin and Yang present and Xing-I uses the 5 fists based on elemental priciplas. However Xing-I's direct translation means Heart--Will.

Basically to make the long story short -Man's will is separated from our heart from birth-we move in contrary to the universal harmony. In order to put things back into harmony we practice that what is in harmony which has been derrived from the animals- Now I cold give a 1 week lecture on all this but I am only going to explain Six Harmonys;

Internal;
Yin- Yang-------"Thats the Mother"
Elements------- Are what makes change possible (developed through yin and yang)
8 Diagrams---- Simply the octagon that designates various stated of elemental changes

Now because China has its roots in Taoism - Martial Arts became directly effected in development by the Tao- However because the Tao is just the way- it is not suject to interpritation; it is what it is. Simply "the way"
It is a mathmatical way to defne all things. This would be considered to be a devine or spiritual understanding thus "Internal in nature" 3 Harmonies

Because it is virtually impossible to practise only by spiritual means physical action is applied to a internal philosophy- thus Animals (Physical) with internal thought (Yi) movements.
Each 6 Harmonies Style has its own interperatation of the 3 physical phylosophy- In-fact I have seen on the web many who gave their opinions to interpretations of the 3 externa lharmonies with the brief desriptions of the internal-

One of the bigest issues is in the Internal - too many only focus on physical- they talk about body alignment and movement- but to explain the internal relationships are imossible for those who can not see , Hear, smell, touch or feel-- Internal really means to be Yi driven (In the mind) to move in harmony. This is the short version- I hope it explains alittle- I know it is kind of confusing but I didnt expect to have to write it so fast to explain something that takes a life time-How do you explain your Spirt? Your Mind? Your Will? and where does it originate?
How about yor Brain or Body now those are easy you can see them or feel them- but not things pertaining to the Spirit- People can not comprehend that what they can not see or sence physically- So how do we teach them?

To be continued on lesson 2!

Sincerely
Sifu

E-MAIL #2

Well even the styles you mentioned can have Six Harmonies to initiate the movements- in-fact there are such six harmony methods already. It would be like asking how do I know where the wind begins? You dont- you just feel the breeze- So to answer your question-"By the results".
Dont get me wrong- there are so many Six Harmony styles unfortunatly it isnt the style that signifies the intent- its the intent that signifies the style. So this is why I am so dissapointed when I hear about specific Six Harmony methods and being explained by movements- externally speaking, If the intent is pure and in Harmony so will the movements-
Please understand that when we start speaking to deeply about Six Harmony, it is impossible to do so without bringing the devine natureinto it. I dont normally even talk about this stuff especially on a forum- Just relize the Tao is simply the way of the world. It can be dangerous to stay within the Tao when we practise, as martial artists; because our intent is to deceive or manipulate- "Make your opponent think you are far when yo are near"
It is completely impossible to acheive complete harmony in this way and actually very dangerous spiritually speaking. Just understand that the Tao is a physical way to acheive a devine understanding- and for that we learn when we are ready to accept it- not by training just by yeilding.

Just one more thing (our Will is not a good thing to have)- This is what keeps us within the Tao and enevitably staying in circles for a lifetime. Up down, hot cold, black white, male female- we are taught from the beginning of our lives to always resist the action- through martial training we learn to acept,(Most people would be satisfied with the results) However if the intent is to manupulate or deceive or to get your Will, this is the danger I speak of. Remeber when I mentioned Xing-I and the separation of Heart and Mind- at the moment our Minds become separated from the heart- "the ego is created" Our ego's will be our Will- If we continue to study in this manner for a life time- can you imagine how bent we become? and how we would ultimatly become what we hate. So to simplify, and as the Tao states; Yin will become Yang and Yang will become Yin- or good will become bad and bad will become good. How do I not become subject to a study that I put my faith in (MA)?
By finding the Devine Nature- it is ultimatly the Will not ours. Its a small path very few find it but those who do, can experience a complete change- a real change and one not subject to action reaction of the world.



"Keep up your hard work!"

Sincerely
JD

Those are some e-mails from my sifu to me on Six Harmonies which is a big part of Ng Family style kung fu.

[Judge Pen]

So there is a video? Did you see it with Frank Sexton?

[MasterKiller]

You have several different systems combined in there, where do they all come from?

[Baqualin]

Just because work is a little slow this morning......




So you can at least have some of this dead horse story correct:

It was Lafayette, not Lex Catholic. 1984 to be exact.

It wasn't a team sparring division, it was an open spar, circle fight if you will brought on because M. Hiang was tired of your Sifu and others sitting in stands yelling smack and disrupting the tournement.

You Sifu and friend didn't kick about 8 or 9 students a$$. Your Sifu fought Bill Leonard, one on one, in a match refreed by Master Hiang. The clear winner is debatable. Both were bleeding after the match.

So Mark, please, when you decide to discuss the realness of your system, base it on reality, not on a story (that you don't seem to know very well) about an event that happened 24 years ago! Base it on the now, what you gain from it and what it has to offer you.

And yes, I was there......

I was there also.....you forgot to mention that M. Hiang had broken ELM's foot earlier....before the match.....GT is correct with what happened and how it ended....no clear winner.
BQ

[Judge Pen]

its linear Ba Qua.

Gao style?

[mkriii]

Gao style?

Now that I don't know for sure. I was under the impression that it was something his granfather had created. I don't know but I will try to find out more.

[MasterKiller]

The animal styles are Shaolin except for the Six Harmonies, the Ba Qua, and the monkey. Those were taught to him by his grandfather. I'm not really sure where his grandfather learned it. The Ba Qua is not what most people are used to seeing, its linear Ba Qua. I have just started learning Monkey Ba Qua. Me and three others drove 3 hours to see Grandmaster Ng and he is teaching us Monkey Ba Qua. I guess we have probably learned the first 10 to 15 moves of the form. There are other animal ba qua forms as well.

Six harmonies is not Shaolin? Can you elaborate? Is it a long fist style?
Which styles did your animal forms come from?

[mkriii]

Six harmonies is not Shaolin? Can you elaborate? Is it a long fist style?
Which styles did your animal forms come from?

Yes I know six harmonies isn't shaolin. Thats what I said I thought....the animal forms came from Shaolin. The Ba Qua, Six Harmonies, and Tai Chi were not from Shaolin. It was my understanding that these three things came from his grandfather. His grandfather taught the normal linear 12 animal Baqua just with a heavy emphasis on six harmonies.

The snake style that Grandmaster John Ng teaches comes from Bamboo Temple and is the Green Bamboo Viper. It originated on farms in Cambodia near the river banks and made its way up to Southern China. This particular snake style is pretty cool looking and is performed using med/high stances compared to other snake styles that use really low stances. It has more open hand techniques than it does closed hand techniques. But it does have some closed hand/fists in it. Grandmaster John Ng and John Dufresne both teach a snake breathing exercise where you you make your whole body tense/hard while executing different snake strikes and breathing a certain way. This exercise is supposedly to cultivate your chi. This breathing exercise if done right will ware you out.