Originally Posted by Judge Pen
I never said that at all. I didn't mention anyones name specifically, did I? And I won't say names specifically. But I will say this, The names on that list of people who are legit Ng teachers are not accurate.
Junior Member
I never said that at all. I didn't mention anyones name specifically, did I? And I won't say names specifically. But I will say this, The names on that list of people who are legit Ng teachers are not accurate.
Last edited by mkriii; 05-12-2008 at 08:43 AM.
Old Timer
You mention Green Viper yet all the links associated with Dr. Ng refer to it as Golden Snake. Care to comment? Plus, wasn't there a big stink with Dr. Ng retired among the top echelon? Perhaps some went Green and others went Gold.....just a thought.The snake style that Grandmaster Ng teaches comes from Bamboo Temple and is the Green Bamboo Viper.
"Pain heals, chicks dig scars..Glory lasts forever"......
Junior Member
O.K.......... regarding snake style taught in the Ng family...... I went back through the article that I have that Dufresne wrote and it seems like Ng family teaches both green bamboo viper and golden snake because John Duresne mentions both. The article shows him with a snake spear and Rusty Gray with a three sectional staff and John is attacking Rusty with the snake spaer. John goes on to state that the spear was nicknamed "the king of all weapons" by the Shaolin Monks but John states that the snake spear is the "true king" of all weapons.
If anyone wants a copy of the article I have it saved on my computer and can e-mail it to you.
Junior Member
Why did you think that I was talking about tim pickens? I never eluded to this at all in any of my posts. I believe that I may have met Tim once or twice at a tournament in Whitesburg, Kyentucky at the mountain fellowship tournament. It doesn't really matter what I think about Tim anyways. Greatgrandmaster has passed his title of Grandmaster on to him.
GreenTiger, there was a little upheaval about some decisions but it has all been taken care of within the family.
Last edited by mkriii; 05-12-2008 at 08:45 AM.
Daper Dan Man
I really don't know the internal politics of Ng Family style are really wasn't trying to allude to anything. I mentioned Tim Pickens because his name was out there re: Golden Snake (and your initial response was it was green bamboo viper notWhy did you think that I was talking about tim pickens? I never eluded to this at all in any of my posts. I believe that I may have met Tim once or twice at a tournament in Whitesburg, Kyentucky at the mountain fellowship tournament. It doesn't really matter what I think about Tim anyways. Greatgrandmaster has passed his title of Grandmaster on to him and wheather you like it or hate it you better learn to live with it because GreatGM John Ng did it.
GoldenTiger, there was a little upheaval about some decisions but it has all been taken care of within the family. Those who aired any dirty laundery on the internet have been talked to and dealt with and everyone has moved on past this but thanks for the concern in the matter. We'll keep you informed on any updates.
Golden Snake and that some people try to "coattail" on Ng's name).
It sounds like Ng Family has its share of politics (like any organization). Keep your head down and keep training and you'll be fine.
Junior Member
JudgePen.....would you like to see the articles by Dufresne? I can easily e-mail them to you if you wish? Some of the people that claim to be John Ng's students really are BUT they haven't spoke to him in like 10 years or longer and have really no idea whats going on in the family. Granted it's been 2 years (until recently) since I have actually spoken to him myself. But then again I'm not claiming to be taught exclusively by him either like some are claiming.
Last edited by mkriii; 05-07-2008 at 12:48 PM.
Daper Dan Man
MRK: e-mail sent.
Can you tell us more about the structure to Ng family style. It seems to teach several differernt styles. Do you have any type of ranking system? About how many forms are taught to a typical student per year? Is their a curriculim and if so, how is it determined when certain forms are taught? How does one rectify the differing principles and fundamentals of these different styles? Are entire systems eventually taught out or do you move from style to style in the instruction. In addition to the forms themselves could you address the underlying training for these forms?
These are some common questions that have been asked of many style; I'm curious to learn how they are addressed in Ng family kung fu.
Loud City
Why don't you know this stuff yourself? How high are you ranked in the system?
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
Junior Member
Sure I can address these questions or try to anyways. I first studied at Four Season Kung Fu Academy owned by Great Grandmasterr Ng. I studied there for about almost 3 years although GGM Ng only taught my cklass from time to time. At Four Seasons the main focus for a long time was just basics and more basics. Things such as kicks, stances, and puching. A little self defense and a lot of sparring. Forms were not taught until you had been there a while, say after maybe a year and a half or so. Then you would learn a form. I was there long enough to learn one full form (Plum Flower Fist). It was about this time that John Dufresne left Four Seasons and opened his school (International Kung Fu & Wu Shu Academy). I left and went with Dufresne. Dufresne left 4 Seasons becuase one of the things he disliked was not having a set curriculum to go by for the students. John teaches everything that Great Grandmaster does he just set it to a curriculum and sash rankss. I guess every person that learned from Great Grandmaster teaches the same stuff but it is up to them how they want to go about teaching it. John Dufresne's sash levels goes like this: white, yellow, green, purple, blue, red, 2nd brown, 1st brown, 1st black, 2nd black, etc....
Each sash has the material you should learn. The first form under John Dufresne that you learn is Gung Li Chuan. Then you move to each animal style...Fu Jow (tiger), Plum Flower Fist (crane), She Chuan (snake), Leopard, and Loong Ying (dragon). Alonfg the way I learned Wu Shu Long Fist Compulsery Form because I was on the schools Wu Shu Team. Once you get to Black sash at Dufresne's school one of the things you have to do is make up a creative form to perform. This was something John Ng was big on. He would often times surprise students at tournament and have them thinking they're doing one particular animal form and then at the last minute tell them they are doing a different animal form that they have never learned before, then once back at the school he would start training them on that specific animal style that he wanted you to do at the tournament. There was no set curriculum like there was with Dufresne. After black sash John Dufresne would size up your ability and see what he thinks you would be best at and then start training you in that particular style. It's not till you get higher up that you really starty to learn the internal stuff unless you just really want to learn it in addition to the external stuff. I really liked the tiger and the snake so I started training in a little bit of both more than the others. I'm strong and stalky from wrestling in high school but I'm fast and like the pressure point strikes and I like to be sneaky and deceptive like the snake so I tried to learn as much of both of those styles that I could.
Last edited by mkriii; 05-12-2008 at 06:34 AM.
Junior Member
So under John Dufresne's curriculum your going to learn 3 or 4 empty hand forms and 2 weapons forms in the first year depending on how fast you learn. I'm a second level black sash and here are the forms I know: gung li, tiger, green bambo viper, plum flower fist, leopard fist, loong ying chuan, fu jow chuan, another Fu Jow form (half tught to me by GGM Ng and half taught to me from Dufresne), wu shu long fist, a tiger/crane form, green bamboo twin viper (2 man set), monkey fist form (taught to me by Mark Burgher who was taught by GGM Jon Ng), staff/bo, braodsword, whip chain, 5 animal form plus lohan, and praying mantis form. Most of those are required up to 2nd level black sash under John Dufresne. I can't speak for other Ng instructors. I think it's pretty much up to them how they want to get the material to the student.
Last edited by mkriii; 05-12-2008 at 07:08 AM.
Junior Member
I'm only 2nd level black sash (under John Dufresne). Not many know the whole history of Grandmaster Wing Loc John Ng. Only his more dedicated, long time students students know.
Last edited by mkriii; 05-12-2008 at 07:05 AM.
Daper Dan Man
I wonder why that is. Not flaming, but why should one's martial history and lineage be a secret?
Loud City
Especially from senior students. Maybe Mark just never asked, but I would think seniors would be informed about the style's history and where the forms came from.
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
Old Timer
I am not sure I understand this. So he would have a student think he was doing a tiger form, then tell him it was actually a monkey form? Or think they would be doing say, tiger 1 but it was really tiger 5 (as an example)?This was something John Ng was big on. He would often times surprise students at tournament and have them thinking they're doing one paarticular animal form and then at the last minute tell them they are doing a completely different animal form that they have never learned before, then once back at the school he would start training them on that specific animal style that he wanted you to do at the tournament.
Can you elaborate on this?
"Pain heals, chicks dig scars..Glory lasts forever"......
Loud City
I think he's saying he would make them learn a new form for tournaments, despite the fact they had been training one already for competition purposes.
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
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