Hung sing, buk sing, or Chan?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

See,

its ok for you if you don't really care about anything but learning Choy Lee Fut. Thats fine. but there are those of us who DO care about who we are, where we're from, and so forth.

You Mike, you have a few CLF forms here and there, but no real CLF teacher to pass that on to you. No offense by that comment, but my CLF lineage reaches of 150 years or more. No breaks in our lineage. No big time gaps. No read degree of separation for my lineage.

Truth of what is universal Hung Sing CLF. OUR gung fu, not what you do.

Mike, you don't do fut san hung sing CLF and can't really comment on it, the same way i can't comment on chan family clf. but i can tell you with the utmost confidence in the world.......chan family clf and fut san clf are not the same thing. never was.

Pls don't take offense to wht i said, you know my passion. peace.

Frank, you are a pompous and arogant windbag. That being said...

Being offensive and making presuppositions regarding what I learned, THEN in the same breath saying that I "have no real CLF teacher to pass that on to" AND THEN telling me not to take offense??

And then you are trying to tell ME that I have a few forms here and there? How would you even think you would know how many forms I have learned?? You see, this is YOU, acting like a dick. That was a dick move and you know it. And I know that you know exactly what you are saying. If you have a question about how many forms I have learned, then you can ask, but to throw out your verbal diarrhea, it's obvious you are just trying to be insulting in your own small-minded little way.

Actually, I'm not offended Frank. On the contrary, I'm quite amused. Your arguments are amusing, your need to be special and different is amusing. Your bickering with any and every CLF person on here is no longer amusing, however.

Everyone on here was keeping things civil and respectful. You have successfully broken that 'code'...but I know that you confuse 'passion' for a lack of 'self control'. Fact is, you can't really have an adult conversation without trying to put someone else down, can you? And if you can, you have yet to demonstrate that on this forum.

Grow up Frank. You are not a gangster. No one cares about your excuses, your accident, or how hard you say you had it in the streets. People are trying to discuss things on here like grown ups. Either behave like one, or go eat at the kiddy table.

I'm sure you will start to seethe as you read this and go nuts with one of your childish rants, claiming your fierce loyalty, your lineage, blah blah blah. Trust me, no one wants to hear it. You've said it a hundred times on here...it's old and juvenile.

People on here are getting along and learning from each other. They are being big boys and sharing their toys with one another. And here you go, fucking it up again as usual. Honestly, I am not surprised.

OH, don't be offended Frank, I'm just wildly out of control and loyal and passionate to my art! But don't take any offense, you know I'm just a disenfranchised gangsta who grew up in the streets and has had a hard life,...but I'm keeping it real! You're not offended though, right?

uh, Peace? LOL

[hskwarrior]

oh, hey mike, im sorry bro. i didn't intend to offend you. my bad!......n ill be a dik....most females love dik!........LMAO!......MICKEY!.......MY SIFU ALWAYS SAYS IT BEST! "I GOT MINE".....much love mike. oh, do u think immodium a.d. will help with my verbal diarrhea? thanks!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

oh, hey mike, im sorry bro. i didn't intend to offend you. my bad!

Apology accepted, Frankey.

[T. Cunningham]

Interesting discussion, especially in how folks are trying to set themselves apart from the whole. The branch "issue" seems to be a problem here in North America only. My training brothers in Sydney hung out with students from the Lacey's school and vice versa. My Sihings Mark and Barry helped out Li Iu Ling's school with Lion dance demonstrations. During one of our seminars in Guangzhou, we went to a Buk Sing school to pay respect and were invited to dinner. During our last trip to China, we attended a dinner hosted by the local government that was attended by may CLF players including Doc Fai Wong. He and my Sifu spoke for quite some time. Point I'm trying to make is we're all one big dysfunctional family so we should stop beating the proverbial dead horse. Never have I heard my sifu say anything regarding other branches, and when told about some of the arguments that have occurred, his reply has consistently been "...no need to argue because we have nothing to prove."

This being said, isn't it time we put aside the bickering about how one branch moves differently than another and who has what forms? At the end of the day, isn't it the display of good kung fu - root, body connection, power (soft & hard in their proper proportions), and the true application of the technique by the individual that counts? As someone has already pointed out, even among the same family, people move differently. Kung fu is personal and thus is subject to individual interpretation. As long as the basic tenets of good kung fu & CLF are present then its all good. Just my two cents....

[cjurakpt]

here's a thought - instead of beating the dead of horse of differences for the sake of establishing identify, authenticity, etc., it would seem to make more sense to compare and learn: meaning that Chan, Buk and Hung all took their CLF, had different experiences w/it, used it in different ways to solve different or similar problems and derived preferences based on that; since the environment didn't support frequent "get-togethers" for whatever reason, you basically had 3 different laboratories running their protocols in relative isolation; now, the situation has changed, and everyone is free to compare notes and outcomes; which is what appears to be the case in general, despite a few people drumming the lineage drum, pretty much for its own sake (in my personal experience, the people who seem to get the most emotional about their TMA affiliations are the ones who realized somewhere along the line that their martial arts family compared to their biological family was far less dysfunctional, and because TMA conventions promote a familial-like structure, they developed a symbiotic relationship w/their sifu and training brothers / sisters; not that anything is wrong with that, it's probably kept more than a few folks out of jail / alive, but because of this perception of salvation, they superimpose their own self-identity - or lack thereof - onto that of the style they practice, so when that inherently artificial and arbitrary construct appears threatened, they tend to reflexively white-knuckle on to it)

[Eric Olson]

in my personal experience, the people who seem to get the most emotional about their TMA affiliations are the ones who realized somewhere along the line that their martial arts family compared to their biological family was far less dysfunctional, and because TMA conventions promote a familial-like structure, they developed a symbiotic relationship w/their sifu and training brothers / sisters; not that anything is wrong with that, it's probably kept more than a few folks out of jail / alive, but because of this perception of salvation, they superimpose their own self-identity - or lack thereof - onto that of the style they practice, so when that inherently artificial and arbitrary construct appears threatened, they tend to reflexively white-knuckle on to it)

Holy stromboli, that rocked my world!

EO

[Yao Sing]

This sounds like a game, how do you play?

[Drake]

How in the world can you expect CLF to grow if everyone is divided? By saying I am "Brand X" of CLF, you are making the system even more confusing and uninteresting to outsiders (99% of the rest of the world). This is why I went with GM Doc Fai Wong. He doesn't bicker or make comments about someone else's CLF. If only everyone could do that, maybe CLF would be a bit more of a mainstream art. As it stands, most people I talk to are like " Chody Lee Whut??"

[Lama Pai Sifu]

The need to separate yourself from others is childish. Mature individuals learn how to get along and help each other. Separatism does not foster growth; masterminding and sharing of ideas and thoughts is how our society progresses.

No one is going to do their CLF the same as the next guy, no matter what school. By embracing these differences and sharing different points of view, we all gain and benefit. Bragging about how different you are doesn't do a **** thing.

On another note, notice where the people who are open minded are; where they are in their lives and their martial arts careers. The people who train a lot of students/have lots of schools/publish, etc. And then, take notice of the close minded people...where are they?

This is the same for anything in life, not exclusive to martial arts. The people that play nice with others and try to help each other,...they go far in life. A Universal Law.

[Brule]

oops, wrong forum. I thought i was in the southern forum but mysteriously ended up in the wing chun one................wait a sec..........**twilight zone****

[Satori Science]

Interesting discussion, especially in how folks are trying to set themselves apart from the whole. The branch "issue" seems to be a problem here in North America only. My training brothers in Sydney hung out with students from the Lacey's school and vice versa. My Sihings Mark and Barry helped out Li Iu Ling's school with Lion dance demonstrations. During one of our seminars in Guangzhou, we went to a Buk Sing school to pay respect and were invited to dinner. During our last trip to China, we attended a dinner hosted by the local government that was attended by may CLF players including Doc Fai Wong. He and my Sifu spoke for quite some time. Point I'm trying to make is we're all one big dysfunctional family so we should stop beating the proverbial dead horse. Never have I heard my sifu say anything regarding other branches, and when told about some of the arguments that have occurred, his reply has consistently been "...no need to argue because we have nothing to prove."

This being said, isn't it time we put aside the bickering about how one branch moves differently than another and who has what forms? At the end of the day, isn't it the display of good kung fu - root, body connection, power (soft & hard in their proper proportions), and the true application of the technique by the individual that counts? As someone has already pointed out, even among the same family, people move differently. Kung fu is personal and thus is subject to individual interpretation. As long as the basic tenets of good kung fu & CLF are present then its all good. Just my two cents....

Exactly, couldn't have said it better.
IMHO these policitics exist in the CMA everyware, that said most of the arguements only happen in the west ware people hide behind a computer, in person no one would ever tell a bak hsing person that their CLF is identical or needs to be in such condesending ways, nor would they tell some one from Chan Yong Fa's school that they are attempting to take credit for all of the CLF in the world, face to face we are one family.

Its also my observation but many of the supposed "champions of unity" on here are some of the rudest and biggest insitgators of arguements, there is such a thing as being a diplomat for your school.

Well said brother, looking forward to seeing you next month,

One.

[Eddie]

...only happen in the west ware people hide behind a computer, in person no one would ever tell a bak hsing person that their CLF is identical ....

....Its also my observation but many of the supposed "champions of unity" on here are some of the rudest and biggest insitgators of arguements, there is such a thing as being a diplomat for your school.

Perhaps you are taking these casual internet discussions a little to seriously. By saying stuff like we wont say thing to the faces of any buk sing players, you imply that the people who don’t agree with all your views are completely against your school or line. You also come across as if you think that all Buk Sing players are superior fighters to other CLF guys, which is both arrogant, ‘condesending’, rude and not diplomatic either.

This division is silly, and its only a recent thing. You have some good and very valid points when you argue your case, but it does come across that you are completely sold on the idea of being divided, and you couldn’t care what everyone else thinks.

Ps- most of he people who posted here, as you said, “hide behind a computer’ , are real people who has all their real info in their profiles. They are pretty much part of the community and doesn’t hide behind any screen names.

[kup choi]

It does not matter, learn which ever one to your best ability. Learn it and functionalise it, each one will just be as effective. It all comes down to the individual.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Exactly, couldn't have said it better.
IMHO these policitics exist in the CMA everyware, that said most of the arguements only happen in the west ware people hide behind a computer, in person no one would ever tell a bak hsing person that their CLF is identical or needs to be in such condesending ways, nor would they tell some one from Chan Yong Fa's school that they are attempting to take credit for all of the CLF in the world, face to face we are one family.

Its also my observation but many of the supposed "champions of unity" on here are some of the rudest and biggest insitgators of arguements, there is such a thing as being a diplomat for your school.

Well said brother, looking forward to seeing you next month,

One.

Why, because they would get their ass whipped?? Be real...

It's statements like that, that cause friction in the martial arts world. Especially because it's purpose is only to fan a flame; what I mean is, WHERE did anyone say that ANY branch, especially Buk Sing was identical? If you were trying to be diplomatic or heaven forbid, agreeable, then that statement wouldn't have been typed. Period.

In the event that I am mistaken, please copy and paste the person's quote who claimed they are all identical. Then we can all gang up on him and tro' him a beatin'.

I respect some of the people on here for the hard work and dedication. Satori, I like your clips and I enjoy the fact that you seem to have a general love for CLF and Kung-Fu. But can you see how your statement will be seen by others? Even if it was not your true intention?

On the other hand, maybe you were directing that at someone and it WAS your true intention,...I have no idea.

Peace

[Satori Science]

Why, because they would get their ass whipped??

No, becuase it is rude and condescending, and I assume that if we were standing in the same room we would be respectful and sincere, like "brothers" perhaps. Exactly the way I am in person, exactly the way I am on online.

I think people are extremely brash and rude online and they would not be if they had to look in me or my Sifu in the eyes,

what others percieve my words to mean is their buisness. What I actually say is mine,

I have never once said anything online that I wouldn't say to someone's face.