Hung sing, buk sing, or Chan?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

No, becuase it is rude and condescending, and I assume that if we were standing in the same room we would be respectful and sincere, like "brothers" perhaps. Exactly the way I am in person, exactly the way I am on online.

I think people are extremely brash and rude online and they would not be if they had to look in me or my Sifu in the eyes,

what others percieve my words to mean is their buisness. What I actually say is mine,

I have never once said anything online that I wouldn't say to someone's face.

I understand you and agree 100%.

what others percieve my words to mean is their buisness. What I actually say is mine,

Aren't you speaking those words to communicate specific thoughts? If your words are being perceived to be different than what you intended them to communicate....isn't that a breakdown in communication? If they are your words, just for you, why bother talking to anyone?? I don't really understand your statement.

Would you mind clarifying the other statement you made about

"in person no one would ever tell a bak hsing person that their CLF is identical or needs to be in such condesending ways"

I was hoping that you could tell me who is the one saying this...who is saying that Bak Sing CLF is identical to someone else's CLF?

[T. Cunningham]

Eeeeasssy there now people. Robert makes an extremely valid point. People of all walks of life hide behind the anonymity the internet provides and develop alternate personalities. We have all experienced/been victims of this to one degree or another. The truth is, face to face, we tend to treat each other differently. Call it Mo Duc or Mutually Assured Destruction, the bottom line is people are quite a bit more polite when at arms reach as opposed to typing on their computers.

It can be very difficult to express certain ideas in writing. Being unable to read the body language or hear the tone of the person making the point, it is easy to misunderstand the intent. Today you read Robert's post against the backdrop of your boss giving you a hard time and your girlfriend ****ing you off. Consequently maybe you see the post as a personal attack and get upset. Tomorrow you smooth things over with your boss and your novia and maybe you nod your head seeing the merits of the points Robert has made. Objectivity is the key in situations like this as well as in our training.

We've seen the posts where folks from other branches say "we do that too" or "that's not unique to....". We might share techniques and principles, but face it, we don't move like the Buk Sing people. They don't move like Chan Family. Neither Buk Sing nor Chan Family move like the Green Cloud or Hung Sing people. The differences make us who we are.

Robert is very proud of what he does as we all should be considering the amount of time and effort we've dedicated to our practice and he understands that, at the end of the day, it is about the individual and the training. I applaud him for being the genuine, hardworking guy he is. You don't often see that these days. So Bro, keep doing what you're doing. Not sure if I'll make it next month - looks like there will be a conflict with my wife's work/travel schedule and the event.

Everyone, as long as we are not exhibiting the behaviors described, we have nothing to be upset about. And if you actually are exhibiting those behaviors, don't get mad - make a change.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

but face it, we don't move like the Buk Sing people. They don't move like Chan Family. Neither Buk Sing nor Chan Family move like the Green Cloud or Hung Sing people. The differences make us who we are.

Just to clarify, there is no Green Cloud; the temple Gus Kaparos named his school after is called Clear Cloud, not Green. I have been there. And we've been posting this for years.

And please don't use that school as an example of a lineage or family distinction. Gus does his own thing and does not look like the rest of the Chan Tai-San crew. Not a slight against Gus or anything, just a fact.

[T. Cunningham]

Just to clarify, there is no Green Cloud; the temple Gus Kaparos named his school after is called Clear Cloud, not Green. I have been there. And we've been posting this for years.

And please don't use that school as an example of a lineage or family distinction. Gus does his own thing and does not look like the rest of the Chan Tai-San crew. Not a slight against Gus or anything, just a fact.

No worries, but isn't this exactly the divisiveness being discussed? Didn't you both draw your knowledge from the same source? Your comments represent a microcosm of the problem as a whole.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

No worries, but isn't this exactly the divisiveness being discussed? Didn't you both draw your knowledge from the same source? Your comments represent a microcosm of the problem as a whole.

No, not really. I just don't think his school is a real representation of what my teacher taught. I do not care for people thinking that, that is what we do. It's not a style thing, but a teacher student relationship thing.

And some just drew much less knowledge from the source than others.

Divisiveness? Hardly. Stylistic Differences..? Not at all. This has nothing to do with CLF lineages or arguments about history or teachers. I'm not arguing the validity of what my teacher learned or taught me as compared to other CLF styles/families. Do you understand my meaning now?

[extrajoseph]

Sam Sing Yat Gar!
nospam

If we all agree that Chan Heung is the sole originator of CLF, then there are no divisions to separate us because we all came from the same root. The rest is just stylistic and personality differences over time and places.

We should encourage this creative freedom of expression in stylistic and personal differences, but don’t destroy the root that bounds us together and give us strength as ever-expanding families descending from the same ancestral source, by attempting to change the history of CLF.

Chan Heung being our founder is not only a historical fact, but also a symbol of our unity and an identity of us as a unique school of traditional CMA. Deny his place in history will spell the end of CLF and the end of us as a strong and unified family.

Like Tarm Sam, Jeong Yim can be a founder of a branch of CLF, but Chan Heung and his mentors gave us CLF and we should respect that for our own sake, and that is the real meaning of “Sam Sing Yat Gar” (“The three Sings are one family”), because what makes a family is having and sharing the same ancestor.

[T. Cunningham]

No, not really. I just don't think his school is a real representation of what my teacher taught. I do not care for people thinking that, that is what we do. It's not a style thing, but a teacher student relationship thing.

And some just drew much less knowledge from the source than others.

Divisiveness? Hardly. Stylistic Differences..? Not at all. This has nothing to do with CLF lineages or arguments about history or teachers. I'm not arguing the validity of what my teacher learned or taught me as compared to other CLF styles/families. Do you understand my meaning now?

I believe I understand you very well, but I don't believe that understanding is mutual. Doesn't matter; that's your own personal beef and none of concern.

[lkfmdc]

I believe I understand you very well, but I don't believe that understanding is mutual. Doesn't matter; that's your own personal beef and none of concern.

No, apparently you don't get it. If one of Lau Bun's students was teaching taekwondo mixed with kenpo but calling it "Choy Lay Fut" and claiming it was from a place called "Queen Mui Village" I think most people in Lau Bun's lineage would be upset.

CTS has a lot of students in the NY area, more than a few have their own schools, with their own school names and different preferences in how they run their schools, no one has any issues with that.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I believe I understand you very well, but I don't believe that understanding is mutual. Doesn't matter; that's your own personal beef and none of concern.

I recognize that the issue that I have address is very separate from the CLF issue which we are all discussing. I just want to set the record straight. Again, no marks against Gus Kaparos, what he does is his own thing.

[Yao Sing]

Seems to me that there will always be someone trying to claim a difference in order to be special instead of relying on their actions and deeds to set them apart. You see this pretty much everywhere especially in the MA world.

If they didn't have something different they would have to compete directly with others that have the same and apparently they don't feel they would measure up.

Sometimes though it's just a monetary and advertising ploy which, again, would be an attempt to avoid direct competition.

Unfortunately people buy into it because they want to be special too so it's never going to end. If we could just take away the stigma of creating your own style maybe these people would do that instead which would probably be less controversial.


Also, I would think that someone with a serious interest and fierce loyalty to CLF would study all the variations to truly understand the system. At least it sounds like it could be a lot of fun.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

If they didn't have something different they would have to compete directly with others that have the same and apparently they don't feel they would measure up.

Also, I would think that someone with a serious interest and fierce loyalty to CLF would study all the variations to truly understand the system. At least it sounds like it could be a lot of fun.

I couldn't agree with you more. 'Dems is some true words.

[Eddie]

I think the biggest problem here, and possibly the thing that gets satori, is that through this medium of internet, we cannot express mood or tone. In real life we could say the exact same things we say on here, but make it sound so much better and respectful by showing emotion. Sometimes it may seem that someone is against you on the internet, but he simply isn’t.

I agree with yaosing and lama pie sifu

[lkfmdc]

I never really followed nor cared for the politics of CLF, all I know (or knew) was that supposedly Chan Heung had 18 disciples. That right there would tell me that pretty quickly there were different flavors of CLF. But by the same token, we were also always taught that if the fist seeds are there (gwa, deng, so, jong, haut, pon, chaap etc) then it was all CLF. I must have seen 5 to 10 versions of the same CLF form(s) over the years, all had the fist seeds, all were CLF

The ceaseless chest pumping, dick waving and "my lineage is SOOOOOOO OLD" crap is really boring and stupid

[Yao Sing]

You know when I think about it Frank is in a good position that if he could humble himself to put on a white sash and learn from the other branches he could offer some real insight into CLF as a whole. It could even become an interesting book since he seems to be inclined to do such things.

[hskwarrior]

me? put on a white sash? for what?

actually Yao Sing, I am not as arrogant as some of you think. I don't hide behind a computer, I have revealed my identity long ago and never backed down from what i believe. I believe what I believe because with an open mind I did my research and came to believe what I do.

Now, for those who don't know, in the beginning we included Chan Heung within our history. We claimed him as founder until we started asking questions. the more questions and answers we got seemed to point us away from chan heung and towards Jeung Yim. If the answers pointed towards chan heung, then i would have accepted that with no problem.

Pls, bro, don't assume I don't know anything about the other branches of CLF. My lineage isn't the only one I have researched. I've learned what I could about Buk Sing, and Chan Family. Do I need to learn their gung fu? No. I am just fine with what I've been learning for most of my life.

Yao Sing, I visually study ALL clf i see. I have my understanding of how CLF works since i've been doing this for almost 3 decades. Am I saying i couldn't learn something from them? No, not at all. I probably could since they are not what i am used to doing. it would just be a different perspective to what i got already.

Well, I'm wrapping up my first book on my schools lineage. And i have other projects i've been working on. one of them does include all 3 families of CLF. In fact, I would love to work with members from all 3 lineages to produce one awesome CLF book that highlights us all and NOT just chan Heung.

And, Dave's right with what he said. we'd be upset if someone did that and claimed it was our gung fu.