CLF Questions and Answers

[Yao Sing]

It's a really tough call as I see it. I think there was agreement that he made a significant contribution to CLF but it seems that technically CLF existed, even if not in a completed form, before he returned from training with Green Grass Monk.

Seems to me that unless Chan Heung recognized him as a co-founder it's a gray area that could be argued either way. I think the top ranking players in all branches will need to get together and go over all the available documentation and evidence and make a determination that most are comfortable with although that sounds impossible at this point in time.

[T. Cunningham]

It's a really tough call as I see it. I think there was agreement that he made a significant contribution to CLF but it seems that technically CLF existed, even if not in a completed form, before he returned from training with Green Grass Monk.

Seems to me that unless Chan Heung recognized him as a co-founder it's a gray area that could be argued either way. I think the top ranking players in all branches will need to get together and go over all the available documentation and evidence and make a determination that most are comfortable with although that sounds impossible at this point in time.

Thing is, the top players aren't the ones arguing over lineage....

[Terrygrey]

Dragon323,

, it was MY idea to push back Jeung Yim's birthday to 1814. But I later changed it to the accepted 1824.

Yuen Hai was GGM Jew Leong's sigung, and how Lau Bun passed it down to him, Yuen Hai was most likely from Vietnam because his last name was pronounce like Nguyen (win). He came to Fut San in Fut San's early stages. Now as we discovered the Hung Sing Kwoon opened in 1851, I obviously have to change my old writing. So from 18 years old until his death, he was a student of Jeung Hung Sing.


But we were never told actually how old Yuen Hai was, or his exact birthdate since that has been lost to time. there are NO records to prove wrong or right. Yes, the birth and death is more along the lines of guesstimation.

But what we do know, and has been confirmed by many hung sings around the world, Yuen Hai was one of the top 3 seinior students.

The only issue here is that i based my infor on the idea that Jeung Hung Sing was born in 1814 and not 1824. hence the 10 year gap.

Classic. The date inconsistencies has been pointed out years ago. Flankey couldn't get his dates right and kept changing the details, yet he just kept going "prove me wrong, prove me wrong". Now we see him admiting he just made things up, and then expects it to be take fact, and if you disagree, he expects you to prove him wrong with evidence, and if an opinion is "confirmed" by few more hung sing opinions then its confirmed fact? Flankey needs to take a crash course in debate and research skills.
And no, flankey. I'm not your one arm bandit friend. And put it this way, I think I have more ideas about who/they kenny is or are than you, so no need to try and make wild accusations, especially no need to ge a flankin tart tui to jump in lol.

[Terrygrey]

Another thing is flankey needs to to some research on Lee Gar. Does he even know what the system was like? Does he even know the system still exists and who else Lee Yau San taught?

One futsan guys says lee yau san and the flankin puppets jump up and down.

No flankey, I'm not about to tell you all about Lee Gar. Go do your own research, if you can.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I nominate Sifu Frank as the Step-Father of the Lower-North American West Coast Chan Hung Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut Ga Association Society.

All hail Sifu Frank! Anyone who can just make up dates and rewrite history deserves to be a benevolent Monarch in my book!!

Just funnin' Sifu Franky-boy! Don't be offended...you know how passionate I am!

[Eric Olson]

Sure, sometimes they are. But the obvious question (or challenge) would be to state what the agenda/angel is.

Here is an example of government bias in martial arts history. Lama Pai is descended from a "non chinese"/"non han" part of what is now China and from non Han ethnicities mostly. OK, making matters worse, it is associated with XiZhang (Tibet). So when the government issued a history of southern styles they "re wrote" the history of Lama and made Dat Mo in Shaolin teh founder. No, I joke you not!

WHY? Obvious. To make Lama "Chinese", to link it to "Shaolin" (to booster that tourist trap!), to link it to the "gung ren" who are "han", etc etc

That is interesting.

But in the case of CLF, what political agenda is served by saying one Han chinese of correct social class founded it over another Han Chinese of correct social class??

I'm not sure what the agenda might be but I think these are the kinds of questions that people should be asking, rather than taking it on faith that the government historians are independent observers.

Cheers

EO

[hskwarrior]

what? htowndragon confirms that it says what ive always said....and no one is speaking about what htown said it said! lol!

[extrajoseph]

Thing is, the top players aren't the ones arguing over lineage....

Not true, Todd. Some of our elders and top players are behind this; they have old scores to settle dating back to the Commuist v Nationalist struggle.

[extrajoseph]

That is interesting.

I'm not sure what the agenda might be but I think these are the kinds of questions that people should be asking, rather than taking it on faith that the government historians are independent observers.

Cheers

EO

The agenda in this case is not political but personal, from individuals who want to take financial advantage of the popularity of CLF, coupled with some old personal scores to settle.

[hskwarrior]

mikey boy! i gotcha fatha right here buddy boy! mr funny man!

[hskwarrior]

cts folks got the clear and green cloud issue, dfw got the choy fook ggm issue, i listed a wrong date sooooo whaaaaat!

[extrajoseph]

cts folks got the clear and green cloud issue, dfw got the choy fook ggm issue, i listed a wrong date sooooo whaaaaat!

So what? So just admit your mistake and don't turn the mistake into a faith. No big deal.

"This is what we believe in, therefore it must be right", is not the way to handle a mistake.

PS. I am referring to your claim that Jeung Yim founded CLF with Chan Heung. You took this information from Futsan without questioning their motive nor their accuracy. This a simple mistake you can admit, instead of trying to turn it into an article of faith. Many human atrocities in this world are done in the same way.

Not having Jeung Yim as the co-founder does not diminish his worth, nor the glory of your lineage, you have to remember that, Bro.

[yutyeesam]

EJ -
I have a question. I'm curious to know how exactly Futsan HSK can profit from saying that Jeong Yim is the CLF co-founder with Chan Heung?

Is it that big of an issue that it affects their tourism commerce? Will it make that big of a difference on people coming to train with them?

I do not know the politics of the commerce for this, so I'm just curious to know, what's really in it for them to make this up? From an outside perspective, it doesn't seem like much. So, I don't immediately see any motive for Futsan HSK to make false claims.

Not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand the context behind it all.

-123

[Lama Pai Sifu]

cts folks got the clear and green cloud issue, dfw got the choy fook ggm issue, i listed a wrong date sooooo whaaaaat!

HA HA HA

How can you compare an obvious misreading of a chinese character to a historical event?

HA HA HA, Clear Cloud.....lol. I see what you were going for there.....OMG! That was so funny, and topical too! And they both have Green....monk, temple....LOL!

Okay Frank, all kidding aside, allow to point this out;

You didn't list a wrong date, you intentionally changed a date so that your story would make better sense. Your credibility as an honest historian is ZERO. You are willing to change facts to fit into the story that YOU want to tell. That is where the problem is here and why no one trusts what you say.

If you have changed facts already, admittedly, then why should anyone believe you?

Don't you recognize the problem with that?

And then, you try to deflect with bad humor in the middle of a serious conversation. When you are unable to win the argument, you switch gears, change the topic or make a joke.

Or you ad an 'ly' or something to someone's name or create a new nickname for them. It's very childish and everyone can see it plainly.

You don't seem like a dumb guy - why not stick to reasonable conversation and keep an open mind? You might make some friends in the process, as opposed to people who 'tolerate' you at best. You'd have a better audience for your efforts if you listed to people as well.

Just a word of advice, take it or leave it.

(I'm sure you will retaliate as a result of this post, however I'm not being mean or sarcastic, just straight-up. I thought you would be able to appreciate that).

[Lama Pai Sifu]

EJ -
I have a question. I'm curious to know how exactly Futsan HSK can profit from saying that Jeong Yim is the CLF co-founder with Chan Heung?

Is it that big of an issue that it affects their tourism commerce? Will it make that big of a difference on people coming to train with them?

I do not know the politics of the commerce for this, so I'm just curious to know, what's really in it for them to make this up? From an outside perspective, it doesn't seem like much. So, I don't immediately see any motive for Futsan HSK to make false claims.

Not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand the context behind it all.

-123

If you know Chinese people at all, especially Chinese Gung-Fu people, you would realize that the $$$ is not more important than 'face'.

Chinese will lose money if it means saving face.

But, as it is with religion, medicine and many other things, if you can't sit at the top of the mountain because it's already occupied, you either find another mountain to sit on or your build another one.

Not saying Fut San made anything up, I'm just saying that there is always motive.