Pulling Back Punches

[Mr Punch]

In a boxing environment, however, you never see anyone leave their arms extended. They are always brought back to protect the chin and flank...
I've just been playing with this idea. I think that leaving the arm out there helps with the sensitivity part, but I worry about not bringing it back to protect my glass jaw!

Which position are you bringing it back to? Do you think a bare hand in a boxing position is going to stop someone hitting your head?

The wing chun guard is naturally more extended than a boxing guard because we don't wear boxing gloves. So, it's comparable to grappling styles, esp old Cumberland/Lancashire styles which evolved into catch, and old bare knuckle boxing which allowed throws and grabs to some extent anyway. The whole point about the sensitivity is allied to that too. Plus, the ninety degree (slightly + ?) angle is inherently strong (search for Andrew S's post linking to a study) so there's a reason we have that position.

Of course you don't want to leave the arm out doing nothing!

Naturally, when you hit something, it hits you back, you "rebound" off of your target.
You don't really need to "draw" your hand back, you just have to NOT let it stay out there.
To leave it out there is rather "unnatural".
I have issues with people that try to "whiplash" or "snap" the fist back in a consious effort, these people, when contact is made, tend to lack power because of their lack of penetrating depth of "follow through", they tend to be, in practical terms, arm punchers.
Its all fine to snap these things in the air, but when you are actually hitting with full force and full speed, and having to penetrate with their strikes ( compression), things typical get "lost".

Dunno. When I was boxing I was taught to withdraw the hand as fast as it went out, but that soon became a reflex so whether you can say it was 'consciously' is a moot point.

Also karateka are taught to focus on bringing the hand back and some of them punch hard enough.

But agreed, the flex after your punch where the split-second tension leaves your arm and crooks your elbow ready for the next short punch can be trained as a reflex from the rebound.

Following on from what Terrence said too, I think the retaining contact is important, and Drew's point about range is spot on too. Many chunners fire off punches from too far: dan chi sao is practised out of range, chi sao gets a little exuberant and too fast... to me the really effective chun range is with the opponent between your man sao and tan sao range. Of course, what this may vary!

This is why with any punch, with any art, follow up footwork is all important. Over extension and leaving your arms out is a symptom of moving without the rest of your body, which partly comes from over-reliance on lazy chi sao (you know, we all do it, where you hit someone, they step back and you let them go instead of following up... or you follow up with arm-only chain punches instead of linking a la CK and following up putting your whole body into the next punch from a more assured position) and not practising on enough live, dodging, moving targets.

Just a few ideas.

[tjwingchun]

I teach leaving the punch extended, it is my view that the time it takes to transfer all the component energies in a punch takes a significant number of milliseconds, to develop a "penetrating punch" rather than a "***** slap" you must be in contact with your opponent for these energies to have any effect.

The other concept I teach is that immediately after the punch has offloaded all its energy the next move the hand makes will depend upon the situation that is faced, whether it is drawn back to a Wu Sau, stays out to control the body/head, changes to a pinning technique, how can I make a decision until the situation has unfolded?

The snapping back of a punch in my mind has too many negatives, I understand bringing the hand back into a defensive position, but I am with Dempsey who noted the lack of "power jabs", full force punches to disrupt and hurt an opponent rather than the light taps for distancing from what he termed as "fancy Dan fighters".

So in short my opinion is that the pulling back of a punch is separate from the punch itself and should be understood independantly, in reality the time it is extended is negligible and not obvious but the importance in delivering maximum power is vital.

[bennyvt]

When I was learning boxing we were taught to drive into the bag. I watched a show about the olympics and they had a bag that tested how long your hand is against the bag they said that because it is won on how many lunches you land not how hard they only really touch the bag and pull the hand back.
Without the elbow locking you loss a majority of the power of the punch. The optimal range for the punch is the elbow a fist and thumb away from the body, thats why we punch the bag at that distance. But this is not always available and without the elbow locking the wrist would not tilt slightly upward.
There are moves that are used at full extension, the punch in biu jee with the wrist to the side. The movement in SLT after the finger strike to neck in second section (I call it the wax on wax off moves), the neck pull in the dummy. This is not all of them but just an example as that some times you arm will be completly extened.
Major point is that it should be retracted as soon as possible