new language

[k gledhill]

Sao would apply the same as tan arm , jum arm ...nothing to do with the hand.
Simply names for differentiating one striking side of the forearm from the other, but the same arm ....for elbow reference in training .
Strike with a tan elbow , the tan arm becomes a strike as the elbow spreads off the line .
Strike with the same arm but on the other side of an attack using the pec to keep the elbow JUM , inwards as it strikes ...the tan role given to the other arm relative to the fight. Not Tan & a DA but tan is the da ....not jum & a DA but jum is the da confused !?

[bennyvt]

i UNDERSTAND THAT ACTUALLY MAKING A UNIVERSAL LANUAGE is not possible. I just mean that some posts tend to be full of chinese names when it gets very confusing.
The point about it being chinese so deal with it is a pretty stupid coment i think. I obviously know this. does that mean I should eat chinese food as I dont know the chinese names?
I remember in judo I had to learn the names to get the belts, I have always had a problem with this, why learn a new lanuage when you only need the movement and an explanation of what is does etc.
I just mean that a general describtion would help us that don't know the exact terms. Obviously tan sao, etc are pretty normal but even my teachers teacher calls things different names but we can look and see what he is talking about.

[LoneTiger108]

I agree that its impossible to find a common language with all the different dialects etc, but the written word is so important. I liked the Dave P quote about using 'verbs' to gain better understanding, but any dictionary will give variations.

The terminologies have already been rewritten so many times with differing romanizations and I agree these can be treated in the same terms as the BJJ camps do with theirs. Common English terms make sense to the beginner.

But what about later down the line? What if your goal is to teach? For me personally, it's a different ball game. At The Academy we highlight loose techniques with the aid of a numbering system for beginners, but if any choose an apprenticeship then study of what this or that number actually is in Chinese is expected.

The hardest thing for WCK people is the fact that the system (not style) relies on specifics, theories etc and these are more complex and mostly take the form of a 'verse' or rythmic song. My Sifu seemed to specialise in that sort of thing so I guess I was lucky to have heard some things...

The most common Lee Shing Family method is his salutation called 'Charp Jeurng Gwar Kuen' - a threading palm and hanging fist (which also translates as foreseeing fist) You will see this movement in any Lee Shing form, done prior to the familiar cross-arm.

The term CJGK is definately universal to Lee Shing Family, but I've seen it all over the place in other arts. It was told that it was this move which influenced the development of Lap Sau.

[Matrix]

i UNDERSTAND THAT ACTUALLY MAKING A UNIVERSAL LANUAGE is not possible. I just mean that some posts tend to be full of chinese names when it gets very confusing.

If you go to a forum that discusses computers, for example, they will use terminology that is specific to that technology. You must learn the lingo over time to get the full understanding of what is being discussed. This is no different. Don't think of the terms as being "chinese" - even though they are. Think of them as the language of th art you are studying.
If you were training in MMA you would need to learn terms like "kamura". Even if the word label was in english, e.g., such as arm-bar. What does that mean in the fulllest sense of the word? The term arm-bar tells you very little about what's happening. It's a label, a mere sign post that points to something. It is a finger pointing to the moon, and you need to stop staring at the finger.

Cheers,
Bill

[unkokusai]

It is a finger pointing to the moon, and you need to stop staring at the finger.

Cheers,
Bill

Anyone using that cliche should be immediately shipped to Gitmo.

[Matrix]

Anyone using that cliche should be immediately shipped to Gitmo.

You call it cliche, I call it classic.
But if the cliche fits, use it.

Bill

[unkokusai]

Ooooh! Now tell me to "be like water" or "empty the cup" or "a watched pot never boils" or "a stitch in time saves nine"...

[Matrix]

Ooooh! Now tell me to "be like water" or "empty the cup" or "a watched pot never boils" or "a stitch in time saves nine"...

Now you're getting the hang of it. Good job.

[Liddel]

So you would say that learning Chinese is a requirement for learning VT?

Yes, in the sence that you should learn the terms in VT which are chinesse not the entire language. Its cantonesse for HK / Ip Man VT.

You can learn as you go...

The point about it being chinese so deal with it is a pretty stupid coment i think. I obviously know this.

I dont think it was stupid Benny, more pragmatic.... but fair comment.

What i meant was this is the way it is and changing it is only going to serve the same purpose as the existing terms or make it more complicated....

It will only make it easier for the individual that changes it to what they want, everyone else will suffer

Spencer wrote -

I guess I'd be excluded here then Drew! Having never 'used' my Chun to do damage to anyone!

Not even in a sparring context ?
Not even in shadow sparring or envisaging applying actions when you do forms ?

Perhaps i should have said 'in application' rather than 'in fighting' thats a little more broad


Chisauli said it best -

But seriously, all fields of study have their terminology... why should WCK be any different?

It shouldnt, lets relate it to something universal....

When learning to drive and your teacher/instructor wants you to stop. Would it be better to say hit the stop peddal or hit the break ?
Push the gearbox disengage from the driveshaft pedal or just push in the clutch ?
Slightly ludicrous but you get my point....

It all comes down to how much you know, if you cant follow the terms of VT here in a discussion forum just ask..someone will expand on it and wala you've learnt something and thats the end of it. Ive asked my Sifu about many terms used here over the years and after explanation its only made me more aware of things. Its a positive IMHO.

DREW

[unkokusai]

Yes, in the sence that you should learn the terms in VT which are chinesse not the entire language.

So would you require Chinese people learning to box to use only Enlish terms?

[Matrix]

So would you require Chinese people learning to box to use only Enlish terms?

Only the cliches.

[Wilson]

You teach in English if that's what your students speak...your going to explain the exercise anyway...

...I would "require" Chinese speakers to "jab"...whatever that word is in Chinese...

[Liddel]

So would you require Chinese people learning to box to use only Enlish terms?

Mate im an open minded person. If im teaching them yes, if they ask for another way then im open to suggestions.

If they want to converse on a forum about boxing with other boxers then they better learn the english way.

Its just they way i am. .

Even if your an experienced SAS soldier and want to join the french foreign legion sorry your s h i t out of luck....you've gotta learn french if you dont know it already...


DREW

[unkokusai]

Mate im an open minded person. If im teaching them yes,

Would it affect their ability to box?

[Phil Redmond]

I agree. I like David Peterson's explanation that the names of techniques are verbs. So I personally like 'Dispersing Hand' for Tan Sau.

He's right. Tan means "disperse" or "spread" just like the action used in the first form. Fook/Fuhk means control/subdue like a cannine does when controlling the neck of another cannine. The character for fuhk depicts and man standing over/controlling a dog.