Chow gar

[Vajramusti]

I have felt the power and the efficiency of good Chow Gar and it seems to be a superior system to Wing Chun.
--------------------------------------
An opinion perhaps- not much to it.

BTW-on Chow Gar- JM is likely to disagree...but IMO--Gin Foon Mark in Minnesota is quite old- in his 80s- doesnt do Chow Gar- but his Southern mantis is powerful-ditto for some of his better students.

joy chaudhuri

[KPM]

I have felt the power and the efficiency of good Chow Gar and it seems to be a superior system to Wing Chun.
--------------------------------------
An opinion perhaps- not much to it.

BTW-on Chow Gar- JM is likely to disagree...but IMO--Gin Foon Mark in Minnesota is quite old- in his 80s- doesnt do Chow Gar- but his Southern mantis is powerful-ditto for some of his better students.

joy chaudhuri

---I agree with Joy on both points. Juk Loom Southern Mantis and Chow Gar are not the same thing. Closely related perhaps...but not the same thing.

[HardWork8]

No disrespect (I know English isn't your first language) but I think you've made a mistake in your English here. A long-term result for an MA would I hope mean I could have a reltively good chance of protecting myself for the rest of my life.

You should have known that I wasn't talking about that! There are certain aspects of Chow Gar such as the shield (Iron Shirt) that will take at least a few years to manifest. If this guy was training for 3 years and did not have the "shield" then that would put his training into question. Just one example.

What would be a longer term result than the rest of my life? Celestial kung fu?!

No perhaps Sanity, or at least the ability to understand simple statements?

OK, so you should've quit while you were at least trying to make sense.

The fact that it didn't make sense may have to do more with your own intellectual limitations then anything I said. Or perhaps English is not your first language either?

I made a relatively simple statement. Others haven't agreed with it without taking your pompous attitude.

You want me to tell you how long this guy's trained so you can assess if his chow gar's a reasonable level and good line based on you believing chow gar to be a superior system to wing chun based on your three years of serious wing chun practice and having 'felt the power' of chow gar

(so how much experience do you have of that and how long did it take you training in that to assess the standard of the guys whose power you felt?! )

Believe me, a lot more than you will ever have! That is why I asked you the question. It was a simple question and it was not supposed to reveal anything "deep", only to give me a better idea of the story.

You're a very silly boy.

You should do something about your permanent Sunstroke problem.

[HardWork8]

I have felt the power and the efficiency of good Chow Gar and it seems to be a superior system to Wing Chun.
--------------------------------------
An opinion perhaps- not much to it.

It is an opinion based on my experience of both( relatively little Chow Gar) systems. My kung fu style is still
Siu Lam Wing Chun and adore it, but that does not mean that there aren't higher level kung fu styles.

BTW-on Chow Gar- JM is likely to disagree...but IMO--Gin Foon Mark in Minnesota is quite old- in his 80s- doesnt do Chow Gar- but his Southern mantis is powerful-ditto for some of his better students.

Last time I looked Chow Gar was a Southern Mantis style. Or did I misunderstand your statement?

[Vajramusti]

Both are southern mantis and rooted in Hakka ways.
I dont know the details of Siu Lam wing chun.

joy chaudhuri

[Jim Roselando]

Sanjuro Ronin,

Is there still any Chu Gar ?

Yes Sir! Its just not as wide spread as Chow. There is a big Chu Gar organization in Hong Kong but they have people around. JR

I have seen a few clips on youtube of Chu gar and the forms don't look the same as the Chow gar ones...

I will post a clip of Chu and Jook. That way you have a good look at Chow, Chu & Jook in this thread! Yes, you can find differences in most of the sets these days. I believe the core sets to be 3, 18, 108. In the old days Chu Gar had, 3, 18 & Fut Sao as their core. Jook Lum has 3, 18, 108 as their core. Chow Gar has dozens of sets. Iron Ok Mantis also has many! These arts IMO are a young off-shoot of Fukien Crane mother system. South Mantis can only trace their lineages back a handfull of people. 4-5 max generations. Jook Lum lore states it comes from the Lungfushan region on the northern Fukian boarder. Fukien mother system preserves 3, 18, 108! JR

*

Cheng Wan Chu Gar South Mantis. Cheng Wan was the student of Chu Gong Wah. Chu Gong Wah was heir to Lao Sui's Chu Gar Gao teaching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJkBaQx0rHo

*Note this a real hard demo. The Kids were really tensing during Grinding Arms.

*

Jook Lum South Mantis demo 1963. The first few minutes is lion dancing. Then, the 1ST person to demo @ 1:55-2:10 is GM Lum Sang. 4' 11" barely 100lbs. This little guy was second to none. All who met him or felt his boxing speak with the utmost respect for him.

The second person in the demo is not South Mantis. Some kind of Tibetan Crane set.

The 3 person is also not South Mantis.

The Last Person doing the demo was Lum Sang's top student. Chin Sifu passsed away but was said to be his best. His demo starts at 3:25-end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFsM0...eature=related

*

Check out:

www.chinamantis.com

This eBook is RICH with info. Filthy RICH! Loads and loads of video clips, animated gif's, pictures and info on the Southern Mantis Boxing schools.


Hope this helps!

[JPinAZ]

thought this was interesting.
Says "Chu Gar Gao Kungfu Defence" and you can hear the guy at the begining saying 'wing chu' a few times, so I am assuming by that and watching the clip that the guy with the gloves is the WC guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vmk2...eature=related

[Jim Roselando]

JP,

The Chu Gar Gao guy is Not a good representative of South Mantis Boxing at all IMO.

His solo set speaks a million words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWvkS...eature=related

I will look for some better clips and post tomorrow. The above guy has little south mantis cultivation/skill. Just compare it to Yip Chee Kung, Cheng Wan or Lam Sang's stuff. Champagne bottle, Beer content! Those guys are serious players/fighters.

[Sekabin]

Hey guys,

Not so keen to step into the fray here (I tend to lurk rather than post), but I'm the friend who did the sparring so I should probably correct a couple of things.

The guy's been training six years not three. I don't know the full lineage but I know it's not Henry Sue. Maybe Paul Brennan.

Anyway, I was impressed with the shocking force, footwork and general connectedness. There are some clear similarities with (my) WCK, though ging is not with deliberate exhalation in either our forms or application. Conditioning (as you'd expect) was good.

Back to lurking...

[Mr Punch]

There's no fray here, stranger - just one guy arguing with himself it seems!

Andrew said his teacher had been taught by Su, though.

And yeah the exhalation thing caught me by surprise: I'd never seen anything quite like that in 12 years of CMA... more reminiscent of some karate styles.

Since you're knocking about, unless you're just gonna go back to being the man of mystery, perhaps you'd like to give us a bit of a run down of any of the things that worked well against him/you or caught either of you by surprise, or anything one of you didn't have an answer for?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sanjuro Ronin,

Is there still any Chu Gar ?

Yes Sir! Its just not as wide spread as Chow. There is a big Chu Gar organization in Hong Kong but they have people around. JR

I have seen a few clips on youtube of Chu gar and the forms don't look the same as the Chow gar ones...

I will post a clip of Chu and Jook. That way you have a good look at Chow, Chu & Jook in this thread! Yes, you can find differences in most of the sets these days. I believe the core sets to be 3, 18, 108. In the old days Chu Gar had, 3, 18 & Fut Sao as their core. Jook Lum has 3, 18, 108 as their core. Chow Gar has dozens of sets. Iron Ok Mantis also has many! These arts IMO are a young off-shoot of Fukien Crane mother system. South Mantis can only trace their lineages back a handfull of people. 4-5 max generations. Jook Lum lore states it comes from the Lungfushan region on the northern Fukian boarder. Fukien mother system preserves 3, 18, 108! JR

*

Cheng Wan Chu Gar South Mantis. Cheng Wan was the son of Chu Gong Wah. Chu Gong Wah was heir to Lao Sui's Chu Gar Gao teaching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJkBaQx0rHo

*Note this a real hard demo. The Kids were really tensing during Grinding Arms.

*

Jook Lum South Mantis demo 1963. The first few minutes is lion dancing. Then, the 1ST person to demo @ 1:55-2:10 is GM Lum Sang. 4' 11" barely 100lbs. This little guy was second to none. All who met him or felt his boxing speak with the utmost respect for him.

The second person in the demo is not South Mantis. Some kind of Tibetan Crane set.

The 3 person is also not South Mantis.

The Last Person doing the demo was Lum Sang's top student. Chin Sifu passsed away but was said to be his best. His demo starts at 3:25-end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFsM0...eature=related

*

Check out:

www.chinamantis.com

This eBook is RICH with info. Filthy RICH! Loads and loads of video clips, animated gif's, pictures and info on the Southern Mantis Boxing schools.


Hope this helps!

Thanks.
I have heard mix things about Rogers book, but haven't read it for myself.
The 68 New years demo was very cool, the last person was Gin Foon Mark is I am not mistaken.

[KPM]

thought this was interesting.
Says "Chu Gar Gao Kungfu Defence" and you can hear the guy at the begining saying 'wing chu' a few times, so I am assuming by that and watching the clip that the guy with the gloves is the WC guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vmk2...eature=related

I wasn't impressed with either one of those guys!

[sanjuro_ronin]

I wasn't impressed with either one of those guys!

At least they are doing something, which is better than nothing.
One hopes they got some thing out of it, namely how ineffective BOTH were because neither was "prepared" to handle the others "style" of attack and defence.
The danger of "****genized" sparring/training.
That applies to ALL systems

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


Thanks.
I have heard mix things about Rogers book, but haven't read it for myself.

If you are looking into South Mantis, I can tell you without reserve it is filthy RICH with info. and clips and pictures and and and. JR

The 68 New years demo was very cool, the last person was Gin Foon Mark is I am not mistaken.

No. Mark Foon was the guy who demo the Crane set. He was the second person in the demo to the best of my knoweldge. The last guy was Chin sifu. He has passed away.

Here is an old clip of Mark Foon doing a little sparring with some Choy Li Fut guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeoiC...139B46&index=2

Here is some more footage of Mark Foon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9DGa...139B46&index=1

[Vajramusti]

You can vsit his website. He is over 80 years old. he is a protege of the late Jook Lum mantis great Lum sum(sp?). You can see him doing some short power movements on Chinese New Years 2008. There are people who have felt the short power.There was a shot one time on the net with him playing with his sifu.There was an article on him in JAMA a couple of years ago.

joy chaudhuri