oldest english language kung fu book?

[brianlkennedy]

I am working on a short encyclopedia entry about Chinese martial arts training manuals and was trying to rely on my own memory about something but---rather than just rely on that fallible source I should ask around. Here is the question:

What are some of the oldest english language books about Chinese martial arts that you remember?

I am remembering from my high school days (early 1970s) these three as being kind of the oldest:

Hung Gar by Bucksam Kong
Wing Chun by James Lee (Bruce Lee as editor)
Iron Palm in 100 Days (and another one called Chinese Leg Maneuvers ) by Lee Ying-Arng

Is that what you folks are remembering as being some of the first Chinese martial arts books you ever saw.

Take care,
Brian

[NorthernShaolin]

I thought it was Robert Smith's book, Shaolin Temple. The other was just a chapter on CMA in Smith and Drager?, Asian Fighting Arts.

[Samurai Jack]

"Kung fu and Tai Chi: Chinese Karate and Classical Exercises" by Bruce Tegner, 1968

That's the oldest one in English I could think of off the top of my head. However, there must be many older books. W.E. Fairbairn developed his "Defendu" system, based on Chinese Martial Arts and Judo, writing a book about it in 1926. It's still in print. There must be more.

[brianlkennedy]

Northern Shaolin, yes, Smiths book on Shaolin is usually cited at "the oldest", although I qualify by saying "the oldest that was widely available in North America".

Samurai Jack, thanks much for the reminder about Bruce Tegner's book. I actually have that book here at the house and forgot all about it!! But yeah, I remember when that book first got wide circulation. Its got basically stuff from Ark Wong.

Outstanding info, thank folks,
take care,
Brian

[David Jamieson]

In english you'll have a few, mostly from the 70's. Siome that go back into the 60's and maybe even a book or two in the 50's.

In Chinese, there's stuff going back quite a ways. I have books from the 50's that are ma manuals

Check out Ohara Publications as I think they handled most titles back in the day. But there are other more out of the way publications.

My oldest english language book taht is expressly about chinese martial arts only is a 1971 release by Ohara, authored by Leo Fong titled:

"Sil Lum Kung-Fu | The Chinese Art of Self Defense"

It contains a form and basics of Sil Lum style although it is clearly laid out for a casual practitioner and not a hardcore sei ping dai ma freakazoid like so many of us are.

But there are tons from that era. Buck Sam Kong's books, Bruce Lees books and various other lesser knowns all burst out in the early 70's

[Buddy]

Also Lee's bagua book.

[TenTigers]

1.Bruce Tegner's Complete Book of Karate had a section on,"What is Kung-Fu?" this came out before the Kung-Fu and Tai-Chi Book. The same guy is in it, however. Anyone know anything about him?
2. Ed Parker's "Secrets of Chinese Karate"
3. Robert W. Smith's "Secrets of Shaolin Temple Boxing
4. Peter Urban's book, "The Karate Dojo" had several sections on Kung-Fu
Bucksom Kong/s , Leo T Fong's, and James Yimm Lee's books came years later

[jdhowland]

The first American publication that I know of to mention the Chinese arts may also be the first English language overview of Asian combative arts. It's a little book entitled A Guide to Judo, Ju-Jitsu and Associated Arts by James P. Moynahan, published around 1962 or '63. I've had my copy since I was a kid. It is remarkable for including even a brief chapter about the arts of India. The chapter on gung fu is not particularly satisfying. The author admitted that it was difficult to persuade even his Chinese-American friends to demonstrate a few moves. I recall that the chapter finished with the statement: "The main difference between gung fu and karate is that gung fu is faster and a highly deadly art."

T. Y. Wong's Chinese Karate: Sil Lum Kung Fu came out a few years later followed by Ed Parker's Secrets of Chinese Karate.

jd

[mickey]

Greetings

Here's some for your list:

The Mind Force Principles of Authentic Chinese Self Defense Kung Fu Karato by Leong Fu (1967)

Lau Gar Kuen by Buck Sam Kong

Chinese Leg Maneuvers by Lee Ying Arng

Tai Chi Chuan and

Advanced Tai Chi Chuan, both by Andrew Lum



mickey

PS: You may also want to check the UK and Austrailia. The rate of dissemination of Chinese martial arts in different countries tend to vary according to the social situation of the Chinese people there.

[cerebus]

Hi Brian.

The first English-language book on Chinese Kung Fu (as opposed to a book with a mention of Kung Fu in it) was probably "Chinese Karate Kung-Fu, Original Sil Lum System" by Professor Tim Yuen Wong and Kein Her Lee (better known as James Yimm Lee, friend and student of Bruce Lee and author of the Ohara Publications book "Wing Chun Kung Fu, Chinese Art of Self Defense"), privately published in 1961.

This was a very interesting and detailed book teaching the first two fist sets of the Sil Lum system of T. Y. Wong as well as basic techniques, stances, footwork, self defense and iron hand training. A fascinating volume...

[cerebus]

And for those who posted before me, a little trivia info:

Leo Fong trained in Sil Lum under T. Y. Wong (not to be confused with Y. C. Wong, the Hung Gar sifu), and it is T.Y. Wong's Sil Lum system which is featured in Fong's book "Sil Lum Kung Fu, Chinese Art of Self Defense".

As for the late V. E. Christensen (the guy demonstrating in the Bruce Tegner book "Kung Fu & Tai Chi, Chinese Karate & Classical Exercises"), a former Tegner student once claimed that Christensen had trained in Los Angeles with Ark Yuey Wong. I do believe he was mistaken though. It's understandable, since the Kung Fu uniform Christensen wears is the same kind that Ark Wong wore (and rather distinctive), but if one compares the contents of the Tegner book with the contents of T.Y. Wong's Sil Lum book, it is VERY apparent that everything in Tegner's book was adapted from Wong's book.

That's not to say that they are exact copies. Certain things which are only mentioned in Wong's book are expanded upon in Tegner's volume to create several basic, beginning-level forms, while the last two forms (which are just slight variations of the ones in Wong's book) are almost move-for-move the same, with certain changes, possibly to avoid copyright infringements.

[David Jamieson]

And for those who posted before me, a little trivia info:

Leo Fong trained in Sil Lum under T. Y. Wong (not to be confused with Y. C. Wong, the Hung Gar sifu), and it is T.Y. Wong's Sil Lum system which is featured in Fong's book "Sil Lum Kung Fu, Chinese Art of Self Defense".

As for the late V. E. Christensen (the guy demonstrating in the Bruce Tegner book "Kung Fu & Tai Chi, Chinese Karate & Classical Exercises"), a former Tegner student once claimed that Christensen had trained in Los Angeles with Ark Yuey Wong. I do believe he was mistaken though. It's understandable, since the Kung Fu uniform Christensen wears is the same kind that Ark Wong wore (and rather distinctive), but if one compares the contents of the Tegner book with the contents of T.Y. Wong's Sil Lum book, it is VERY apparent that everything in Tegner's book was adapted from Wong's book.

That's not to say that they are exact copies. Certain things which are only mentioned in Wong's book are expanded upon in Tegner's volume to create several basic, beginning-level forms, while the last two forms (which are just slight variations of the ones in Wong's book) are almost move-for-move the same, with certain changes, possibly to avoid copyright infringements.

Is there not a general concensus that Tegner was a karate guy who jumped on Bruce's bandwagon? My dad had his book and after I had studied for a few years I found it and went through it.

It really is shyte.

[cerebus]

Actually, Tegner was a Judo guy. He only had an "honorary" black belt in Karate...

[jdhowland]

T. Y. Wong's Chinese Karate: Sil Lum Kung Fu came out a few years later followed by Ed Parker's Secrets of Chinese Karate.

I misremembered this and stand corrected. I just checked my copy of Wong's book and see that Cerebus is right. Chinese Karate Kung-Fu was copyrighted in 1961, making it a year or two older than Moynahan's book.

Some other '60s books worth mentioning are Tai Chi for Health by Edward Maisel, 1963; Robert W. Smith's (with Cheng Man-ching) T'ai-Chi: The "Supreme Ultimate" Exercise for Health, Sport, and Self-Defense, 1967; and the earlier mentioned Asian Fighting Arts by Donn F. Draeger and Robert W. Smith.

[Oso]

circa 25,000 BC

written on a wall via the simple depiction of a spear thrown by a vaguely hominid type figure in to a vaguely quadrupedal type figure.