APA: How did King Hu compare with the other directors in non-action scenes -- like drama scenes?
CPP: The drama scenes were not that different. King very much followed history. He loved the Ming Dynasty, so he thought everything should be correct. Even the clothes, the materials, had to be like the Ming Dynasty. Now, nobody cares what dynasty it is; everything is the same. Not for King. He wanted everything. For instance, [in Come Drink with Me,] why were those two small knives in my boots? He knew that the character would have to hide it, because he knew that at the time, people couldn’t bring knives around in the open. So he knew of these kind of details of reality.
APA: Was he also interested in how a woman might act in the Ming Dynasty? Did he care about those kinds of details?
CPP: I think he was more concerned with the details of governance, and how people of different ranks dealt with each other. He never did any love stories. His personal life was like that, in that the love letters he wrote to girlfriends were not very expressive. There were no “I love you’s.” He thought those things were too personal. It’s actually very Chinese, like in Crouching Tiger, where Chow Yun-fat and Michelle Yeoh couldn’t even touch each other.
APA: Did you feel the same way about someone like Chang Cheh?
CPP: Chang Cheh was very different. Chang Cheh was actually very literate, but you couldn’t tell in his movies, though it shows in the lyrics he wrote for the “Alishan” song. Of his movies, Golden Swallow has the best writing. I can’t say he’s as literate as King Hu, but he was. It just doesn’t show in his movies.
APA: Why do you think that was?
CPP: He was more commercial. He was also very much a “man.” He wanted fighting that was ugly.
APA: If his films are so manly, how did he direct a female actor like yourself?
CPP: Well that’s why his films had no female actors at all.
APA: Except for you.
CPP: Yeah I had a big part. Although I’m pretty manly too. [laughs]
APA: Did he direct you as if you were a man?
CPP: No. He thought he knew women really well. He thought that if I did these roles, no man would want to marry me. He would tell me to have my hair down. And the way that he shot Wang Yu looking at me was very sweet. But usually girls were just there as girls.
APA: Some of his movies didn’t even have women in them.
CPP: There was no need. It was very different from King, who did a lot for women. I was very lucky. And that’s why I’m able to keep getting parts in movies like Flirting Scholar and Crouching Tiger. It’s as people say: to be a star or an actor means getting lucky. You have a chance, and you catch it. [My daughters] Marsha and Eugenia may be better actresses than me, but it’s too bad that they didn’t have my luck. Maybe one day, you never know.
APA: Can you say something about films like Ho Meng-hua’s The Jade Raksha?
CPP: Ho Meng-hua and Lo Wei were so different. They were storytellers. King Hu was not a storyteller; he was an art film director. But they were storytellers, and were so unique in doing that. With [Ho Meng-hua’s] The Lady Hermit, they tried to create the actress Shih Szu as the next Cheng Pei-pei. I thought that was a very bad idea -- to have somebody be the second somebody. It was the same with The Lotus Lamp. They wanted me to be the next Ling Po. Although in real life, Ling Po was much more feminine than me, in the movie I was still much more feminine than Ling Po [who was famous for playing males].
APA: And The Lotus Lamp was one of Lin Dai’s last movies, and they were trying to create the “new Lin Dai” as well.
CPP: That was even worse. They took her to Japan to change her face. Lin Dai had gotten plastic surgery in Japan, so they went to the same doctor. But even plastic can’t look the same.
APA: When did Inoue Umetsugu’s Hong Kong Nocturne happen?
CPP: It must have been shortly after Come Drink with Me. I remember King Hu wasn’t happy about my being in [Inoue Umetsugu’s] Operation Lipstick. He said, “Why did that Japanese director make you like that? Why did he make you wear so little and then have you sway around like that?” [laughs]
APA: So did a lot of the Shaw Brothers director not like the fact that the Japanese directors were coming to make films at Shaws?
CPP: Yeah. They really didn’t like it. They didn’t understand why if we already had so many directors, they should bring directors from Japan.
APA: Why do you think they brought the Japanese directors?
CPP: From my understanding, as with the fact that the older stars were getting too big and so they needed new actors, Run Run Shaw thought that the “four big directors” (Yueh Feng, Doe Chin, Lo Chen, Lee Han-hsiang) were getting too big. Especially after Lee Han-hsiang and King Hu left, he felt that he could get other directors who could be on schedule and on budget. Inoue Umetsugu was able to quickly make two movies with me in them.
APA: So you felt that they were more efficient as well?
CPP: Of course, but it’s because the studio always gave them first priority. A musical [like Hong Kong Nocturne] is very difficult, because there needs to be rehearsals. And the studio provided everything like the sets. They didn’t favor the Hong Kong directors. Also, Inoue had already done Hong Kong Nocturne before in Japan. So people always said that of course the shoot would go well because it was his second time making it.
APA: Did you get a lot of opportunities to speak with Inoue? Did he give you a lot direction?
CPP: He couldn’t, because he couldn’t speak Chinese.
APA: Right. So how did that work?
CPP: We had a translator there all the time. Many years later, I met Inoue at the Tokyo Film Festival. I was with Marsha, who looks a lot like I used to. Inoue looked at her and said, “Cheng Pei-pei! How come you look the same!” [laughs]
APA: Wasn’t it hard to work with a director you couldn’t speak with?
CPP: Well, not really. Especially because there was a script. Of course it’s not the same though. Operation Lipstick was more difficult because it had so much action. Actually I’m very happy with the all of the choreography in Hong Kong Nocturne.
APA: Was it shot by Nishimoto Tadashi?
CPP: Nishimoto Tadashi was with Shaw Brothers a long time. My first film, The Lotus Lamp, was shot by him. So he actually learned some Cantonese. He was very nice. He became very Hong Kongese. Come Drink with Me was him too. I did a lot of films with him. At that time, you could tell if a film was big by what director of cinematographer was assigned to it.
APA: Were there any cameramen who were famous for making the actresses more beautiful?
CPP: Yan Jun’s cameraman was very good. But his films looked better for black and white. For color films, Nishimoto was the best.
APA: At that time, did other studios like Cathay try to buy out your contract?
CPP: Not Cathay, but United.
APA: Did Lee Han-hsiang try to recruit you when he went to Taiwan?
CPP: Not at that time, but later, in the 1990s before he passed away, he went to America for a heart operation. I was doing real estate in America. So I showed him houses. And for each house I showed him, he made up a story. Every day I showed him a house, he made up a story. He told me that I could be more than a martial arts actresses and that he wanted to show people that I really could act. So in the last film he did, I had a part.
APA: In the 1970s, a lot of Hong Kong producers went to Taiwan. Were you part of that generation?
CPP: No. In that generation, I produced my children. [laughs]
APA: So you had moved to L.A. before that?
CPP: Yeah. Jimmy Wang Yu [who moved to Taiwan,] would tell me at that time that I could make a lot of money. They all made a lot of money during that kung fu craze.
APA: Did they try to get you to go back?
CPP: They did. [points to her children sitting in the room] But their father wouldn’t let me. [laughs] But maybe it was good.