The Pole

[LoneTiger108]

Just something that interest me immensely.

How do you translate 'Luk Dim Boon Gwun'? And how does it affect your interpretation of Wing Chuns lesser known stick/pole plays?

[tjwingchun]

You know my thinking for the pole with my interpretation of the techniques and how I envisage they could be used, as far as translation is concerned I leave that to experts in languages, I stick to being a "cunning linguist"

[LoneTiger108]

Maybe I shouldn't have just asked the question straight away...

I'm not saying that you need to be a linguist professor to understand your Wing Chun, but I would never have been given access to anything if I didn't show the interest in learning Chinese (Cantonese).

I admit that I'm crap at conversation, but I do know a little about curriculums and terminologies. This has been my downfall really, as there are no people to chat to other than fellow 'Jun Mo' students and they're all over the place these days lol!

What is the name of everyones 1st Point Technique? 2nd 3rd etc? It intrigues me, as I've said before, as I have still to see a 'form' like the one passed down from Lee Shing. The version I'm on about here is only taught by Sifu Austin Goh and Sifu Joe Lee, my 'Uncles'.

This is what it looks like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExClVQ7CdVs

[Vajramusti]

'Luk Dim Boon Gwun'=6 1/2 points pole.

There are more than 6 1/2 strikes with the pole. The name is not because of 6 1/2 strikes IMO.

Thanks for sharing the Goh clip-I had seen to before. He looks "energetic"- but I would rather not do it that way at least for training..

Ip man was already old when he was filmed with the pole at a HK police gathering. A well known
WC businessman bought that film and is most likely sitting on it....though he has shown it to some students. Sheesh.

joy chaudhuri

[Phil Redmond]

'Luk Dim Boon Gwun'=6 1/2 points pole.

There are more than 6 1/2 strikes with the pole. The name is not because of 6 1/2 strikes IMO.

Thanks for sharing the Goh clip-I had seen to before. He looks "energetic"- but I would rather not do it that way at least for training..

Ip man was already old when he was filmed with the pole at a HK police gathering. A well known
WC businessman bought that film and is most likely sitting on it....though he has shown it to some students. Sheesh.

joy chaudhuri

Hi Joy, some WC lineages including TWC do have 6 1/2 actual strikes though there are more blocks/parries.
Phil

[anerlich]

Phil, Joy, I think it also depends how you do the counting.

Is it me, or is this thread being ignored!

You seem to be hinting you have some unique insight into the pole most of your WC peers lack, and are hinting around it. I don't have time for mind games, so in my case the answer is "both". If you have something to share, share it.

[Vajramusti]

I know Phil. Wing chun is a diverse world.

Andrew- Of course - depends on how one counts. Not being coy atleast not intentionally.

But if you look at some possible basic strikes -not pure "blocks"( the kuit on the kwan:not more than one sound) there can be many more than
6 strikes.
For starters-
Top of the head, center of the forehead, wind pipe cavity, chest, solar plexus, dan tien, groin, both sides- temple, sides of the neck, hands, elbows, knees, ankles. shoulders, colar bone indentation etc. Too many "points"---that is why I am skeptical of the name coming from 6 1/2 strike points. Each strike would involve different manipulations of the pole.

joy chaudhuri

[Phil Redmond]

I know Phil. Wing chun is a diverse world.

Andrew- Of course - depends on how one counts. Not being coy atleast not intentionally.

But if you look at some possible basic strikes -not pure "blocks"( the kuit on the kwan:not more than one sound) there can be many more than
6 strikes.
For starters-
Top of the head, center of the forehead, wind pipe cavity, chest, solar plexus, dan tien, groin, both sides- temple, sides of the neck, hands, elbows, knees, ankles. shoulders, colar bone indentation etc. Too many "points"---that is why I am skeptical of the name coming from 6 1/2 strike points. Each strike would involve different manipulations of the pole.

joy chaudhuri

Hi Joy, according to some WC lineages the 6 1/2 strikes are the motions used which can strike various targets. Not the "many" target areas themselves. There are clearly 6 distinct strikes to cause damage. The half strike is another thing.
Phil

[Phil Redmond]

Phil, Joy, I think it also depends how you do the counting.



You seem to be hinting you have some unique insight into the pole most of your WC peers lack, and are hinting around it. I don't have time for mind games, so in my case the answer is "both". If you have something to share, share it.

Was this aimed at me or Joy? I don't think either of us said or implied that we had some special knowledge above other wingchunners.

[Vajramusti]

Phil,

I let it go---depends on how one counts---I count more than 6 strikes-not just many more points.

joy chaudhuri

[anerlich]

Was this aimed at me or Joy? I don't think either of us said or implied that we had some special knowledge above other wingchunners.

Neither. At the OP.

[imperialtaichi]

The pole form according to Wong Seung Leung and Tsui Seung Tin line:

The first six moves are for striking. The seventh (Lau Sui, or Running Water) is for redirection. Hence six and a half point.

I've seen students of both Wong and Tsui doing the pole. Similar moves, different flavour.

Cheers,
John

[Liddel]

Anyone ever think it was related to the length of the "traditional" pole ?
(Meaning the one most commonly used....)

Although these days it wouldnt relate exactly to 6 1/2 of anything as there are many different measuring units....

This is the idea of what was passed to me ...

Lok Yiu - Yau Soong Ying - DREW

Anyone know what the common measuring unit is in China and how long its been used...or what it once was..... ?

[LoneTiger108]

You seem to be hinting you have some unique insight into the pole most of your WC peers lack, and are hinting around it. I don't have time for mind games, so in my case the answer is "both". If you have something to share, share it.

I personally have never really been welcomed into the Wing Chun family as my Sifu has always been different, low key and non-political. I do think I have a rare insight though, as I know of very few people who have seen what I have seen, trained what I trained and lived how I did. Very few. But don't we all feel like this? This isn't intended as a boast, as I trained alongside guys who had more than 15 years in Wing Chun before they met Sifu! They were all oldskool, and if I do have peers it is only them I would refer to, although I call them 'Brothers' and they know who I am.

I started this thread because of a confusion, or shall I say 'lack' of enthusiasm for the Pole/Stick training in Wing Chun. That's all. The translation, IMHO, means so much in interpretation. This quote, I feel, says it all:

Words from an Wing Chun non-expert
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The pole form according to Wong Seung Leung and Tsui Seung Tin line:
The first six moves are for striking. The seventh (Lau Sui, or Running Water) is for redirection. Hence six and a half point.

NOTE: The Seventh. This was how it was explained to us on numerous occassions. The 'Half Pole' was NEVER described as being a 'point'. The Half Pole was like the quarter staff and used for redirection as suggested, evading and parrying at close range. Yes, I say 'close range'.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone by starting this thread, or even for entering this forum in the first place, but I honestly want to hear from people who have a similar viewpoint. Our Families stick was famous while Lee Shing was alive. He was known as 'King Of The Stick' as a young man! Never needing to learn it from Yip Man, but assist in its refinement he may have done IMHO.

I have my own reservations about sharing my mind on forums like this one as I too am in semi-retirement at 32!! lol!! There is just no reason for me to teach/coach in todays climate as I feel that the interest really isn't there...

After years looking at this site, I took it upon myself to write here without any of my Family knowing. Soon it may all just stop as I get the impression this is going to be a difficult journey...

[chisauking]

LT:

An old Chinese saying comes to mind: 'dui ngu taane kam' , which means playing piano to a cow. No matter whether you are playing good or bad, the cow wouldn't appreciate it.

In some ways, it's the same on this forum. No matter how good your post, some may not agree; no matter how poor your post, some agrees. It all depends on ones experience, comprehension, skill level, etc., etc.

If you decide only to part-take upon good reception \ responses, then you may as well pack up and go home. FWIW, I enjoy some of your post (needless to say, I don't agree with everything) and I think it's good contribution to an otherwise 'bickering' forum.

Carry on if you enjoy the banter, but remember that only 'weak minded' people needs to seek other's approval.