Hello

[lkfmdc]

I'm making a run for his title.

You are going to have to try MUCH HARDER, I've been at this for YEARS

[1bad65]

You are going to have to try MUCH HARDER, I've been at this for YEARS

You are no doubt a worthy opponent, but I will win that title!

[B-Rad]

Really, is it better to lie to your girl-friend/spouse/mother than it is to lie to your customer?

Poor argument. While lying to a spouse can be very dangerous, the level of danger depends on what kind of lie you're telling. Lying about an affair or something illegal you did is a lot different than saying that dress doesn't make her look fat Lying to your customers about your background and/or the services you're providing on the other hand is called fraud and is illegal. People are always getting sued and thrown into prison for these kind of things. Unfortunately, in the martial arts world, the cult mentality that is developed between teacher and student and other classmates (often unintentionally) or even just the enjoyment of the fantasy causes people to overlook things in their teachers that they wouldn't otherwise. And a lot of stuff is poorly documented and difficult to prove in court, especially to someone uneducated in martial arts.

Anyway, not saying the accused is guilty of this, but your argument is just one that disgusts me a bit. Just because someone is a martial artist doesn't make them exempt from basic expectations of business ethics, I think.

[zapruder_bjj]

poor Argument. While Lying To A Spouse Can Be Very Dangerous, The Level Of Danger Depends On What Kind Of Lie You're Telling. Lying About An Affair Or Something Illegal You Did Is A Lot Different Than Saying That Dress Doesn't Make Her Look Fat Lying To Your Customers About Your Background And/or The Services You're Providing On The Other Hand Is Called Fraud And Is Illegal. People Are Always Getting Sued And Thrown Into Prison For These Kind Of Things. Unfortunately, In The Martial Arts World, The Cult Mentality That Is Developed Between Teacher And Student And Other Classmates (often Unintentionally) Or Even Just The Enjoyment Of The Fantasy Causes People To Overlook Things In Their Teachers That They Wouldn't Otherwise. And A Lot Of Stuff Is Poorly Documented And Difficult To Prove In Court, Especially To Someone Uneducated In Martial Arts.

Anyway, Not Saying The Accused Is Guilty Of This, But Your Argument Is Just One That Disgusts Me A Bit. Just Because Someone Is A Martial Artist Doesn't Make Them Exempt From Basic Expectations Of Business Ethics, I Think.

Bravo Man Bravo!!!!!!!

[Old Noob]

Poor argument. While lying to a spouse can be very dangerous, the level of danger depends on what kind of lie you're telling. Lying about an affair or something illegal you did is a lot different than saying that dress doesn't make her look fat Lying to your customers about your background and/or the services you're providing on the other hand is called fraud and is illegal. People are always getting sued and thrown into prison for these kind of things. Unfortunately, in the martial arts world, the cult mentality that is developed between teacher and student and other classmates (often unintentionally) or even just the enjoyment of the fantasy causes people to overlook things in their teachers that they wouldn't otherwise. And a lot of stuff is poorly documented and difficult to prove in court, especially to someone uneducated in martial arts.

Anyway, not saying the accused is guilty of this, but your argument is just one that disgusts me a bit. Just because someone is a martial artist doesn't make them exempt from basic expectations of business ethics, I think.

Sorry to be unclear. It's difficult to be succinct while making rather broad observations. I will say that I think that there's a distinction to be made (for legal purposes) between lying about your service/product and lying about your background. I'll readily agree that people regularly get sued and lose for lying about their product or service but I'm not as ready to concede that causes of action for misrepresenting one's background are as successful. Also, again correct me if I'm wrong, I believe Fox's alleged misrepresentations were made to the forum and not on his website to his consumers. So I guess I should have said, "Are you saying that it's better to lie to your girl-friend/spouse/mother than to a bunch of guys on an internet forum." In any case, it was not my intent to disgust you. As far as I can tell only He Who Gets the Most Complaints on the Forum intentionally disgusts.

BTW, I completely agree the the MA business is particularly plagued by teachers with questionable backgrounds but, as I believe has been discussed here, the alternatives (government-run licensing, etc.) have difficulties as well.

[zapruder_bjj]

Sorry to be unclear. It's difficult to be succinct while making rather broad observations. I will say that I think that there's a distinction to be made (for legal purposes) between lying about your service/product and lying about your background. I'll readily agree that people regularly get sued and lose for lying about their product or service but I'm not as ready to concede that causes of action for misrepresenting one's background are as successful. Also, again correct me if I'm wrong, I believe Fox's alleged misrepresentations were made to the forum and not on his website to his consumers. So I guess I should have said, "Are you saying that it's better to lie to your girl-friend/spouse/mother than to a bunch of guys on an internet forum." In any case, it was not my intent to disgust you. As far as I can tell only He Who Gets the Most Complaints on the Forum intentionally disgusts.

BTW, I completely agree the the MA business is particularly plagued by teachers with questionable backgrounds but, as I believe has been discussed here, the alternatives (government-run licensing, etc.) have difficulties as well.

Heres my 2 pennies. Government involvement will not help, so private police would be a good idea here. The dissemination of MA information about credentials and backgrounds would therefor be best handled on a forum(like here or bullshido), that being said Fox is in the wrong here and should just come clear, say it was joke or a troll job anything but keep with the lie.

[Old Noob]

Heres my 2 pennies. Government involvement will not help, so private police would be a good idea here. The dissemination of MA information about credentials and backgrounds would therefor be best handled on a forum(like here or bullshido), that being said Fox is in the wrong here and should just come clear, say it was joke or a troll job anything but keep with the lie.

I'm not disagreeing. If the guy's lying, the right thing to do is to fess up. I'm just not sure why the pursuit in this case is so dogged.

[mkriii]

how about you argue over the differences between Freudian and Jungian interpretation.... come on! It will be fun!

How about arguing about Max Weber vs. Emile Durkhiem and thier views on class or suicide within different religious denominations (Protestants vs. Cathlics vs. Athiests).

Or you can argue about Carl Marx and his views on equal distribution of wealth amongst the people and how there is no motivation to work harder when everyone is making the same amount.

[lkfmdc]

What we really need on here is a discussion of the evolution of the theory of the holy trinity and Muslim and Jewish responses to it. NOw that would be a hoot!

[Lucas]

throw in some stem cell research and abortion and I'm game.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Controversy ???

Bah !!

[lkfmdc]

Well, if you want to bring up Marx, then you have to bring up Lenin, then of course you have to ask "how does Leninism differ from Marxism and how does Stalin fit into that picture"?

Oh, since it's a kung fu forum, we then have to ask if Maoism is in fact the logical inheritor of the Marxist line. If you do that, you have to challenge the vanguard theory

Sounds like a barrell of fun

[mkriii]

What we really need on here is a discussion of the evolution of the theory of the holy trinity and Muslim and Jewish responses to it. NOw that would be a hoot!

ok we know that the Holy Trinity is the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit. I'm Catholic and what I know is that this concept or the idea came about in the early begginings of the church by the Popes, Cardinals, & Bishops. How they came up with this concept I would have to research. I will assume it could be found in the Holy Bible somewhere (keeping in mind that there are two versions of the Holy Bible. One being the King James Version and the other being the Catholic Version. The Catholic Version I believe has two books that the KJ Version does not have. The Catholic Version came first and then the Protestants decided they did not like certain portions of the Bible and removed some stuff. Which is right is up for debate.

[lkfmdc]

ok we know that the Holy Trinity is the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit. I'm Catholic and what I know is that this concept or the idea came about in the early begginings of the church by the Popes, Cardinals, & Bishops. How they came up with this concept I would have to research. I will assume it could be found in the Holy Bible somewhere

WRONG!

In fact, based upon the "bible" (which also influenced Islam OF COURSE), the Holy Trinity is believed be by many heresy!!!!!!!

[1bad65]

I'm not disagreeing. If the guy's lying, the right thing to do is to fess up. I'm just not sure why the pursuit in this case is so dogged.

Based on the facts I've put forth, do you honestly believe Wolfgang Lang posted on Fox's forum?