Need for education reform

[bodhitree]

I disagree.

I would love it if everyone had critical thinking abilities, but I don't think everyone does. I just think an approach that realizes that we are all different, with different abilities and talents should take that into account.

Pretty much what I'm saying is not everyone is born to be an academic, and vocational options should be available to those who are not, because they should still be skilled part of our workforce.


I can understand where you are coming from though.....

[sanjuro_ronin]

Bah, critical thinking !
Over used crap that people spew out to justify that their crap is better than someone else's crap.
Puny Mortals.

[Oso]

What age group are you talking about?

mostly HS but I don't think it matters...or maybe it matters more earlier. I know I started reading 'big books' earlier than most but certainly you have to get kids reading by MS or they are probably lost already.

[unkokusai]

Doesn't that post contradict itself?

[Oso]

yea, I thought that was obvious I changed my mind about the first part of what I said.

I think it's hard to say when it's too late to have captured the mind of a child as far as anything goes. IME, there is a point where they start making decisions about things and there is not much you can do to change the path they start walking.

Due to personal experience, I'm a huge believer in reading as a fundamental tool in preparing a child to start making good decisions...and yes, it doesn't matter what they are reading to begin with or even at all. But, if they don't start reading something they'll never read anything that just might be 'good'

FWIW, I spent 3 1/2 years as a bookseller and have several success stories where parents came in desperate because their child wouldn't read and it was simply because they were interested in the subjects they were being asked to read. So, I helped them find stuff they were interested in.

I also lived with an english major for 7 years while she was doing her undergrad and graduate studies. One of her favorite topics was the benefit of trash romance novels in the lives of a certain class of women. I'll let ya'll assume what you will about that statement

{oh, heaven's...he done done it now: saying that people are of different classes....}

oh, yea, this chick had a bad procrastination issue and I spent more than one occasion typing the final copy of her papers (I typed faster and I'm just that type of guy ) so, if nothing else there was a fair amount of osmosis happening.

[unkokusai]

So you think that reading comic books, or letters to Penthouse, or some poorly-written hack novel is just as useful for a child's education as reading the classics?

Do you have this same 'interesting' attitude toward other subjects? Should students only do math they 'like?' Should they only study science that is interesting to them? Should they only show up at school at all when they feel like it? How far does this attitude go?

[Oso]

what they read should be age appropriate of course...though what boy didn't read Penthouse letters every chance he got?

you seem to be missing my point and I'll say it again just one more time:

ANYTHING that gets someone reading versus not ever reading is OK.


and no, i don't feel the same about math or science...those are 'hard' subjects with facts and stuff.

but, if the kid isn't reading, they are probably not going to get very far in math or science are they?

Should students only do math they 'like?'

no, they should progress through the levels as far as they can go. if they top out at Algebra then they most likely won't make a very good astrophysicist. if they top out at 2+2=4 then they need to be directed (and tested somehow) someplace they can do well...the vocational direction perhaps, though they won't get far as a carpenter or electrician w/o better then basic math. they could be a plumber though, that's pretty easy...I know

Should they only study science that is interesting to them?

same as math.

Should they only show up at school at all when they feel like it?

That's debatable as well. Certainly through 8th grade but if they are not academically oriented at all then a trade school will do.

How far does this attitude go?

Are you getting fresh with me?????

[unkokusai]

Your educational theories are a great way to promote laziness, underachievement, and virtually no standards at all.

[Oso]

no, they aren't.

the point has already been made by others that not everyone is suited for academia.

once someone is identified as that type of person and what they are suited for is identified then they are encouraged to work towards those goals.

that's when lazy might come in to play but anyone is capable of laziness irrelevent of whether they dig Shakespeare or not.

There should definitely be standards. It is by those standards that you determine what someone might best be suited for.

well, I'm done beating this horse...it's been fun, have a nice day!

[Mr Punch]

Careers that don't require critical thinking

postal delivery

pizza delivery

waste management (at least the guys in the truck)

assembly line

window washing

There is no reason people who work in these capacities need to have read the Trail or A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man or Crime and Punishment.

If they are interested, that's great but it's not necessary....

1) HTF is pizza delivery a career?

2) A postal delivery guy who has some critical thinking abilities may be able to spot the next letter-bomb; a window-washer with critical thinking abilities may be able to spot when one of his elderly customers isn't well; any of the above 'careers' could be improved by someone with working knowledge of them [i]and critical thinking abilities[i]... personally I can't think of one job where critical thinking abilities would be a minus, and I'd prefer to live in a society where everybody uses their head - I can't help but think it'd be safer and more caring.

3) Further to that, since I don't really believe that a) democracy works as such, or b) democratic government is a 'human right' to be given rather than a system to be worked at by members of that democracy, I would even propose that people who don't pass a certain level of critical thinking assessment shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[Oso]

1) HTF is pizza delivery a career?

If it suits the individual and they make enough money to support themselves in the manner they wish then why not?

2) A postal delivery guy who has some critical thinking abilities may be able to spot the next letter-bomb; a window-washer with critical thinking abilities may be able to spot when one of his elderly customers isn't well; any of the above 'careers' could be improved by someone with working knowledge of them [i]and critical thinking abilities[i]... personally I can't think of one job where critical thinking abilities would be a minus, and I'd prefer to live in a society where everybody uses their head - I can't help but think it'd be safer and more caring.

yea, it'd be nice but not likely...ever.

3) Further to that, since I don't really believe that a) democracy works as such, or b) democratic government is a 'human right' to be given rather than a system to be worked at by members of that democracy, I would even propose that people who don't pass a certain level of critical thinking assessment shouldn't be allowed to vote.

it's not the right time to be sober
now the idiots have taken over
spreading like a social cancer, is there an answer?

Mensa membership conceding
tell me why and how are all the stupid people breeding
Watson, it's really elementary
the industrial revolution
has flipped the ***** on evolution
the benevolent and wise are being thwarted, ostracized, what a bummer
the world keeps getting dumber
insensitivity is standard and faith is being fancied over reason

darwin's rollin over in his coffin
the fittest are surviving much less often
now everything seems to be reversing, and it's worsening
someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool
now angry mob mentality's no longer the exception, it's the rule
and im startin to feel a lot like charlton heston
stranded on a primate planet
apes and orangutans that ran it to the ground
with generals and the armies that obeyed them
followers following fables
philosophies that enable them to rule without regard

there's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated
political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred
majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions

what are we left with?
a nation of god-fearing pregnant nationalists
who feel it's their duty to populate the homeland
pass on traditions
how to get ahead religions
And prosperity via simpleton culture

[bodhitree]

It does seem like in this country the people who are the most stupid also breed the most. People like Jerry Springer or Maury guests. Our future is doomed.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Every country has it shares of A-holes, don't worry to much about them, worry more about the so-called "educated masses" that can't see the forest from, the trees, those that advocate "the ends justify the means", those that nutride whatever is convenient at the time for their comfort level.

[Oso]

RAOFLMAO....


i just tried to read 'nutride' as 'newtreed' and was like 'wtf is he saying'.....lol....

[GeneChing]

...this thread came up when I searched "Cambridge". It's an amusing discussion, so I ttted it with something irrelevant.

Martial arts move into Cambridge boardrooms
Tuesday, 4 January, 2011
7:00 AM

Martial arts are set to move into Cambridge boardrooms as part of a new initiative to improve the performance of high-ranking business executives.

Directors and senior managers are being offered the chance to learn lessons from the world of martial arts and apply them in the office – and they don’t even have to leave their desks.

The man behind the scheme is Massimo Gaetani, 45, a businessman and qualified business coach who also has about 30 years’ martial arts experience. In his spare time he runs the Cambridge–based martial arts club Carisma.

He is also the official coach to the kickboxing teams at both the University of Cambridge and Anglia Ruskin University.

“Executive coaching is all about helping yourself to excel by improving your personal performance, which is exactly what we do in martial arts,” said Mr Gaetani, managing director of MaGa Coaching.

“Martial arts offer a holistic way to improve yourself. It’s a way of helping people to improve themselves but not just from a physical point of view.”