Need for education reform

[Oso]

I never said that a book shouldn't be educational...just that it should actually interest the student. As far as vocabulary goes I agree but Shakespeare, DHL, ****ens or any of them don't have the market cornered on vocabulary.

What if all a kid wants to read is tech manuals? They certainly have a large number of words that are unique.

I agree that it's the teachers role to do just what you say and that is a problem unto itself.

SimonM: ok, fine but it's safe to assume that you're of at least average intelligence.

My point is about reading. The more kids read the better the chance that they will be able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. It doesn't matter how 'good' something is or isn't if it can get them reading at all.

I'm out for the day.

[Oso]

Funny the accountability thing came up.


[snip]


Anybody else want to add to this list?

money is the root. teachers should be paid more for sure.

[Merryprankster]

Oso, true, but I caveat it.

Money without accountability is the root.

The accountability thing needs to apply to the children as well. Having several teachers for friends gives you an interesting outlook. All classrooms need to operate on the following premise:

"All children have a right to learn, but not at the expense of their peers' right to learn."

Too many teachers are not allowed to control their classrooms.

[Oso]

right on. but that gets down to the PC aspect of determining/deciding that a child needs to be routed a different direction due to aptitude (and attitude as well) which is something teachers and administrators are not allowed to do in public schools.

I worked in a private school for 5 years and, at least in this one, only kids with the right aptitude are even admitted and if they end up with the wrong attitude thay are booted. I don't agree with the booting but do agree that more attention needs to be who/what these kids are as individuals...argh...not enough time to express myself better....

[bodhitree]

Literature is NOT for everyone, but some who do get literature need some encouragement. That's what makes a great teacher great, the ability to spark interest in the topic. Literature certainly helps develop overall critical thinking, but again, critical thinking is not for everyone.


Back to the Vo-tech idea from before, I actually work at an interesting educational institution (which I will not name, however someone from Pittsburgh may know what I'm talking about). This program is an adult vocational education program. We have programs in horticulture technology, pharmacy tech, chem lab technician, medical coding, medical claims processing, office technology and culinary arts. The school is a non-profit and students pay nothing out of pocket to attend (although government money may be taken if a student is eligible).

How does that work?

We have partnerships with the local industries. There are many chemical companies in the region, many of whom are our corporate contributors. They contribute money to us, we design a curriculum around their needs and they get workers trained to their exact needs. It's a win win for the school and the business. It's also an example of how public and private interests can work for the good of everyone.

Our school was originally started to help out of work economically disadvantaged people. Now anyone can attend. We also have a GED program, but after that 100% of our time and resources are dedicated to training the students for their career, placement, and professional development. Our library is very concentrated, and other than a few novels that were donated almost everything is about the careers we teach. Another thing is we expect a lot from our students, and if a student isn’t living up to expectations they are removed, and once you’re gone, you’re gone. We rarely have problems though, as our teachers and staff are very supportive.

The model of our school is being emulated in other cities, and we have a ‘replication’ department to help these schools with getting set up. Many of our students come from tough backgrounds. Some have criminal records, some just never had an opportunity, some are housewives who never worked, and some are just people looking to change careers. It’s a great pleasure to see people change their lives by changing their earning potential.

Our school is also not for everyone, but it is an example of something positive happening in education in the United States.

[Black Jack II]

1. Increased pay
2. The trade off is that tenure is unattainable until, say, your 10th year....
3. Tenure is reserved for the top 50% of performers IN THE STATE (not the school, to avoid school jumping for tenure).
4. An evaluation system, much like the military officer FITREP or Officer Evaluation form, or the federal government Personnel evaluations, that includes quantitative rankings in performance dimensions, coupled with strong qualitative evaluations describing performance and personal qualities that contribute to performance. Semi-Annual for teachers under 4 years experience. Annual thereafter until retirement.
5. The bottom 15% of teachers each year are offered "remedial" help. Continued performance in that category results in being fired. If this occurs when you are tenured, your tenure is suspended for one year, pending re-evaluation. If you still can't hack it, goodbye.
6. Incentive pay for vital subjects

Good list, though personally I would of pushed tenure up to the 15th year of teaching.

[unkokusai]

like reading Shakespeare out loud in class...an English class, not a drama class.
Shakespeare was never written to be read but seen/heard.

.................................................. .


WTF?

you name it, pretty much everything I had to read in HS, I hated.

Ok, so the problem was really you then.

[unkokusai]

I pretty much believe that it doesn't really matter what you read as long as you read.

Seriously?

[Oso]

yea, seriously...as opposed to not reading at all. getting someone to like reading anything is the first step to getting them to read for education or pleasure.

"WTF" what?

and, yea, the problem was me. thanks for making my point

[unkokusai]

Literature certainly helps develop overall critical thinking, but again, critical thinking is not for everyone.

........................wtf?!

[unkokusai]

yea, seriously...as opposed to not reading at all. getting someone to like reading anything is the first step to getting them to read for education or pleasure.

What age group are you talking about?

[bodhitree]

........................wtf?!

Careers that don't require critical thinking

postal delivery

pizza delivery

waste management (at least the guys in the truck)

assembly line

window washing

There is no reason people who work in these capacities need to have read the Trail or A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man or Crime and Punishment.

If they are interested, that's great but it's not necessary....

[bodhitree]

yea, seriously...as opposed to not reading at all. getting someone to like reading anything is the first step to getting them to read for education or pleasure.

It's a shame but it's true, any book that gets kids away from the television or playstation is a good thing.

[unkokusai]

What about writing an essay or a theme? Do they do that in a No Child test? Critical reasoning? Analogies? etc....

The actual tests vary from state to state, but if there is a state test that doesn't include the above I'd like to see it.

[unkokusai]

Careers that don't require critical thinking

postal delivery

pizza delivery

waste management (at least the guys in the truck)

assembly line

window washing
....

I disagree.