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Thread: Off shore drilling?

  1. #106
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    The 'Idle' Oil Field Fallacy
    By RED CAVANEY
    June 20, 2008; Page A13

    A bill introduced in Congress this week would "compel" oil and natural gas companies to produce from federal lands they are leasing. If only it were that easy to find and produce oil. Imagine, an act of Congress that could do what geology could not.

    These lawmakers ask why oil and gas companies want more access to federal lands to drill if they aren't using all of the 68 million acres they already have? Anyone with even the most basic understanding of how oil and natural gas are produced – and this should include many members of Congress – knows that claims of "idle" leases are a diversionary feint.

    A company bids for and buys a lease because it believes there is a possibility that it may yield enough oil or natural gas to make the cost of the lease, and the costs of exploration and production, commercially viable. The U.S. government received $3.7 billion from company bids in a single lease sale in March 2008.

    However, until the actual exploration is complete, a company does not know whether the lease will be productive. If, through exploration, it finds there is no oil or natural gas underneath a lease – or that there is not enough to justify the tremendous investment required to bring it to the surface – the company cuts its losses by moving on to more promising leases. Yet it continues to pay rent on the lease, atop a leasing bonus fee.

    In addition, if the company does not develop the lease within a certain period of time, it must return it to the federal government, forfeiting all its costs. All during this active exploration and evaluation phase, however, the lease is listed as "nonproducing."

    Obviously, companies want to start producing from active fields as soon as possible. However, there are a number of time-consuming steps to be taken before they can do so: Delineation wells must be drilled to size the field, government permits must be obtained, and complex production facilities must be engineered and installed. All this takes considerable time, and during that time, the lease is also listed as "nonproducing."

    Because a lease is not producing, critics tag it as "idle" when, in reality, it is typically being actively explored and developed. Multiply these real-world circumstances by hundreds or thousands of leases, and you end up with the seemingly ****ing but inaccurate figures our critics cite.

    Our companies have made tremendous strides in developing cutting-edge exploration technology. But they are not magicians. They cannot produce oil or natural gas where it does not exist. A significant percentage of federal leases simply may not contain oil and natural gas, especially in commercial quantities.

    As I've often said, the first step in our business is called "exploration" for a reason. Exploration is time consuming, very costly and involves a great deal of risk. Importantly, you see neither a drop of usable oil nor a cubic foot of natural gas while it is going on. But it is absolutely essential, and there is nothing "idle" about it. Without the exploration that took place years ago, less domestic oil and natural gas would be available today to meet consumer demand.

    In reality, a lease is simply a block on a map, with no guarantee that it contains any resources. If all of them did, one could simply pay for the lease, haul in equipment and start pumping oil. But that only happens in fiction.

    And it happens in the minds of those who use the undeveloped-lease argument as a smokescreen to mask their intent to keep America's vast energy resources locked up underground, despite increasingly strong consumer demand for oil and natural gas. For exploration to take place, our companies need access to the areas – offshore and onshore – that we know have the potential to produce the oil and natural gas consumers will need, if ours is to remain a viable economy in an increasingly competitive global marketplace.

    Today's short-term need was yesterday's long-term opportunity. If Congress had acted on that opportunity years ago, America would not be in the energy bind it finds itself in today. Working with industry, Congress now has the opportunity to help secure America's energy future. It should not miss the chance again.

    Mr. Cavaney is president and CEO of the American Petroleum Institute, the trade association that represents America's oil and natural gas industry
    .


    The "Idle" oil fields...
    Bless you

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodhitree View Post
    .


    The "Idle" oil fields...
    So...what's he saying, they are Idle, they aren't?, they're being exploited, they are not? there is oil, he doesn't know?
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    You know, stats are funny, when did the Iraq Invasion/war/Occupation start?
    2003.

    And the biggest jump by year was between 2007-2008. Blaming it on the war is a HUGE stretch.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    Their growing economy is why their oil consumption is growing. You do see the 2 are related, right?
    Yes. Like I said, I don't disagree with the bones of what you are saying, only with your waffling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    you're kidding? i would love to drink that beer just BECAUSE it's in a dead animal...i may even pick up the next dead squirrel i see and stuff a budweiser in it

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    Prices of Light Sweet Crude by year:

    2002 - $18-25/barrell
    2003 - $23-38/barrell
    2004 - $32-52/barrell
    2005 - $43-70/barrell
    2006 - $58-76/barrell
    2007 - $50-94/barrell
    2008 - $88-130+/barrell

    http://octane.nmt.edu/gotech/Marketplace/Prices.aspx

    You sure about that?




    The difference in the pump price is due their astronomical gasoline taxes.



    What do you think is the reason? And please don't say 'Big Oil' or 'The Rich'.
    The price of crude has gone up for everyone, not just americans. So if it was the price of crude, then why hasn't Europe seen a 500% increase in the cost of fuel?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    you're kidding? i would love to drink that beer just BECAUSE it's in a dead animal...i may even pick up the next dead squirrel i see and stuff a budweiser in it

  6. #111
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    I am anything but a troll

    You can call me whatever but a Troll is not one of those things. I have been on this forum longer than alot of you here, so i take offense at the Troll comments directed at me.

    Ibad65 equates me as a racist because i make a comment about people who drive hummers as being wasteful and yes a douchwad because of it. You all know as well as i do that there is an Immense Apathetic attitude of the rich elite when it comes to the environment and resources, sure not all of them are like this but MOST are,from what i have seen and heard. I may be a liberal libertarian but i am certainly not apathetic to the issues and i am certainly not going to sugar coat my opinions to protect the eyes and ears of obsessive no lifers like Ibad65.
    You may not realize this Ibad65 but you have no real respect here on these forums, your obsessive nature with regards to Rudy and Fox and all the other horsesh!t you have spouted here have put you in the category of a blabbermouthing whiney little b!tch and yes maybe even a troll as well. Yeah and Trolls have their opinions as well whatever.


    Now back to the topic at hand.

    Peace,TWS
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    The price of crude has gone up for everyone, not just americans. So if it was the price of crude, then why hasn't Europe seen a 500% increase in the cost of fuel?
    Like I said, the enormous taxes Europeans pay affect the price at the pump more than anything else over there.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  8. #113
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    Whatever TWS

    Call all the names you want. Big deal.

    BTW, whats your opinion on the oil mess? That is the topic of this thread, not who likes and dislikes me.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Willow Sword View Post
    Ibad65 equates me as a racist because i make a comment about people who drive hummers as being wasteful and yes a douchwad because of it.
    I will go one further. People who drive SUVs around the city are douchewads. It doesn't matter if it's a hummer or a Rav 4. If you don't ever go off-road you don't need a freaking SUV.

    They guzzle gas.
    They give you a distorted perspective on the road.
    They are more likely to cause fatality in accidents.
    They do not provide considerably greater carrying capacity than a station wagon... which doesn't have the same problems.
    Simon McNeil
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    Be on the lookout for the Black Trillium, a post-apocalyptic wuxia novel released by Brain Lag Publishing available in all major online booksellers now.
    Visit me at Simon McNeil - the Blog for thoughts on books and stuff.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    Like I said, the enormous taxes Europeans pay affect the price at the pump more than anything else over there.
    enormous taxes would not have stopped the fuel suppliers from passing on a 500% cost increase.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    you're kidding? i would love to drink that beer just BECAUSE it's in a dead animal...i may even pick up the next dead squirrel i see and stuff a budweiser in it

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonM View Post
    I will go one further. People who drive SUVs around the city are douchewads. It doesn't matter if it's a hummer or a Rav 4. If you don't ever go off-road you don't need a freaking SUV.

    They guzzle gas.
    They give you a distorted perspective on the road.
    They are more likely to cause fatality in accidents.
    They do not provide considerably greater carrying capacity than a station wagon... which doesn't have the same problems.
    I hate to agree with you, but I do. SUVs for soccer moms are like tacky gold jewlery on pimps and used car salesmen. A pointless extravigance that is only used to prop up an over inflated ego. I hate agreeing, though, because you are tarring everyone without thinking about how some of us who drive SUVs and pick-up who live in the city might actually use them as they were intended.

    I had an isuzu trooper untill recently when it became too old to be worth fixing up. It got great fuel economy, but I didn't have it just to have an SUV. I had it because I took my kids and dogs camping all the time and it was the perfect vehicle for that. I don't camp so much any more, but I do still haul kids, dogs and other odds and ends. So I replaced it with a much more ecenomical compact 2X4 pick-up. But it isn't a car and it doesn't get 35 MPG so I bet you'd say that was an extavigance that ruins your lungs.

    But tell me this, which is a bigger extravigance: having one vehicle that can serve all your needs or having 2 or even 3 specialized vehicles for every occasion? Station wagons are great; I've owned them. But I can't realistically haul firewook in it. I can't pick up a large tree from the nursery in it. I did once haul a full sized washer, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    you're kidding? i would love to drink that beer just BECAUSE it's in a dead animal...i may even pick up the next dead squirrel i see and stuff a budweiser in it

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    enormous taxes would not have stopped the fuel suppliers from passing on a 500% cost increase.
    Anyone in business knows suppliers MUST pass on cost increases on their side or lose profits and risk going bankrupt. Let me break it down for you:

    Say Americans pay $1.00 in taxes per gallon.
    Say Europeans pay $2.50 in taxes per gallon.

    Now say that the oil companies charge a 10% markup on the gas at the pump.

    Say the price for the gas companies to make a gallon of gas goes from $2.00 to $4.00.

    The US at $2.00: $2.00 + $.20 (the 10%) + $1.00 = $3.20
    Europe at $2.00: $2.00 + $.20 (the 10%) + $2.50 = $4.70

    The US at $4.00: $4.00 + $.40 (the 10%) + $1.00 = $5.40
    Europe at $4.00: $4.00 + $.40 (the 10%) + $2.50 = $6.90

    Notice that in both places gas went up $2.20/gallon, but it was a higher % increase in Europe because of taxes.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  13. #118
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    What you CHOOSE to drive is your business. Who made people like SimonM the moral compass who gets to decide who should drive what vehicle?

    I'm just waiting for the day some moron like him makes a snippy comment about my car's horrible gas mileage and how I should not be allowed to drive it.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    Anyone in business knows suppliers MUST pass on cost increases on their side or lose profits and risk going bankrupt. Let me break it down for you:

    Say Americans pay $1.00 in taxes per gallon.
    Say Europeans pay $2.50 in taxes per gallon.

    Now say that the oil companies charge a 10% markup on the gas at the pump.

    Say the price for the gas companies to make a gallon of gas goes from $2.00 to $4.00.

    The US at $2.00: $2.00 + $.20 (the 10%) + $1.00 = $3.20
    Europe at $2.00: $2.00 + $.20 (the 10%) + $2.50 = $4.70

    The US at $4.00: $4.00 + $.40 (the 10%) + $1.00 = $5.40
    Europe at $4.00: $4.00 + $.40 (the 10%) + $2.50 = $6.90

    Notice that in both places gas went up $2.20/gallon, but it was a higher % increase in Europe because of taxes.
    Sure break it down after I've demonstrated I already have knowledge of the subject. I'm a purchasing agent 1Bad; I understand supply and demand.

    But by all meens, keep ignoring the fact that the price increase on fuel has only it North America while trying to blame the price increase of crude, which doesn't seem to have impacted any one else that way.

    I also whould like to know were you got those numbers for tax rates. BTW, Europe doesn't pay the same for fuel as we do, even before taxes and after converting from the Euro to the Dollar. They pay, base rate, 3 times what we do.
    Last edited by Becca; 06-20-2008 at 08:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    you're kidding? i would love to drink that beer just BECAUSE it's in a dead animal...i may even pick up the next dead squirrel i see and stuff a budweiser in it

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    But by all meens, keep ignoring the fact that the price increase on fuel has only it North America while trying to blame the price increase of crude, which doesn't seem to have impacted any one else that way.
    Europeans are used to high gas prices. So they don't complain as much. They also do not drive as much either, so it's less of an effect on their daily lives.

    Americans are not used to gas prices this high, so we complain more. We drive alot more than Europeans do, so it has a greater effect on our daily lives.

    That's the difference.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

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