Bong Sau

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1g-8ajovYM

[couch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1g-8ajovYM

That's not Wing Chun!!!

LOL

Not my cup of tea. But definitely don't like how at the beginning, he gives his opponent his Wu Sau with his Bong Sau. He's already given him both hands. Pinned or pulled, it's over, Grover. Can you tell I've got kids?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Old_Grover.jpg

[sanjuro_ronin]

That's not Wing Chun!!!

LOL

Not my cup of tea. But definitely don't like how at the beginning, he gives his opponent his Wu Sau with his Bong Sau. He's already given him both hands. Pinned or pulled, it's over, Grover. Can you tell I've got kids?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Old_Grover.jpg

Yes, I am a trouble maker

[couch]

Yes, I am a trouble maker

I was gonna call you a Sh!t disturber for posting that vid. LOL

What else it there to do as a WC practitioner? Train? Bah!

[sanjuro_ronin]

I was gonna call you a Sh!t disturber for posting that vid. LOL

What else it there to do as a WC practitioner? Train? Bah!

Hey, if THAT man says that's how a Bong Sau is done then, by all the hairy gods, that's how it's done !!!

[couch]

Hey, if THAT man says that's how a Bong Sau is done then, by all the hairy gods, that's how it's done !!!

This is true. He is from China and he has a video series.

I am nothing and retract all opinions.

[k gledhill]

ugly.....chasing with a bong, to far to hit with either hand , turning to redirect an arm [ bad ] instead of attacking the person ..
'

bong is a blink of an eye. we do alot in chi-sao to ensure the angle is correct as we attack in without thinking. 1000's of simple reps for a simple blink response.

[Phil Redmond]

That's not Wing Chun!!!

LOL

Not my cup of tea. But definitely don't like how at the beginning, he gives his opponent his Wu Sau with his Bong Sau. He's already given him both hands. Pinned or pulled, it's over, Grover. Can you tell I've got kids? . . . .

Except for the bent wrist this is how TWC does it. We're not worried about the trap. With contact reflexes there won't be anything to trap. I used to do the bong first then the Wu. Now I do them together.

[KPM]

This is true. He is from China and he has a video series.

I am nothing and retract all opinions.

Just goes to show you that being chinese and training in China is no guarantee! Those guys were so far apart that the could barely even touch each other! Then they lean forward rather than stepping in and almost fall over. It was actually kind of comical.

[Liddel]

Except for the bent wrist this is how TWC does it. We're not worried about the trap. With contact reflexes there won't be anything to trap. I used to do the bong first then the Wu. Now I do them together.

Interesting Phil...

Personally i would only ever do something like that for a heavy round punch or kick from a bigger opponent, cause i need both hands to deal with the force. It would be more like Kwan or the Bong with Wu. Straight punches not so much.

I too dont do the wrist bend.... i feel its using force that you dont need to get results. I have no doubt you make it work with speed

Its easy to see the guy in the clip has to train more, the bong users horse is all over the place taking the force into his body too much making him unstable.

Its not that bad really though considering what stage thier at, unless hes a teacher

DREW

[couch]

Just goes to show you that being chinese and training in China is no guarantee! Those guys were so far apart that the could barely even touch each other! Then they lean forward rather than stepping in and almost fall over. It was actually kind of comical.

Making the wheels go first (stepping) is key when being pulled. No leaning, walk the stance instead!



Phil - I thought about TWC stuff as this is how I was taught at Lewadny's club. No offense to your way of doing things. I know you can throw down. Just my preference.

Best,
Kenton

[HardWork8]

Except for the bent wrist this is how TWC does it.

In Siu Lam Wing Chun we do it more or less like the people on the video. However, the fingers are never open or spread apart. That is they are closed and tight (with minimum tension).

In our system if you offer open fingers to your opponent during sparring or chi sao, you will be in danger of having your fingers grabbed and locked or taken down to the ground.

We're not worried about the trap. With contact reflexes there won't be anything to trap.

Exactly!

Furthermore the wu hand can be used to lap (da) the incoming punch.

I used to do the bong first then the Wu. Now I do them together.

If memory serves me correctly that is how I learnt my bong sao as well.

[HardWork8]

Personally i would only ever do something like that for a heavy round punch

Interesting. Do you mean that you turn your bong-wu into the incoming hook/round punch?

I too dont do the wrist bend.... i feel its using force that you dont need to get results. I have no doubt you make it work with speed

Furthermore and depending on the situation your fingers can end up closer to the relevant areas of the central line, i.e. the throat. I am sure that this aspect is more relevant to practitioners at Biu Jee level (not my level), who can convert the bong into telling short range finger strikes to that area.

Its easy to see the guy in the clip has to train more, the bong users horse is all over the place taking the force into his body too much making him unstable.

I think that they should have used higher level students for that video.

[Liddel]

Interesting. Do you mean that you turn your bong-wu into the incoming hook/round punch?

Yes, Bong Wu or kwan (bong tan). Generally speaking its for 'swings' or hooks that are closing the distance. The combo of the actions used together creates a stronger block IMO.

With my sparring partners it allows me to launch lower leg kicks while blocking an attack.
If i were in the mood knee stomps are good in this situation .

Furthermore and depending on the situation your fingers can end up closer to the relevant areas of the central line, i.e. the throat. I am sure that this aspect is more relevant to practitioners at Biu Jee level (not my level), who can convert the bong into telling short range finger strikes to that area.

Not to knock anyones appraoch ok...but i feel one can do that without bending the wrist with the bong...
one could argue that starting without the bend means the punch can fall away adding to its effectiveness and your range of motion transitioning into a Bui Sao can add momentum and inch power to the strike....

Thoughts ?

In all honesty i really cant see any 'major' concerns from doing it, its just how i was taught... so preference is the deciding factor IMO

DREW

[HardWork8]

Yes, Bong Wu or kwan (bong tan). Generally speaking its for 'swings' or hooks that are closing the distance. The combo of the actions used together creates a stronger block IMO.

It sounds good and interesting, but it is a little different from the Siu Lam Wing Chun approach.

If i were in the mood knee stomps are good in this situation .

Ouch!

Not to knock anyones appraoch ok...but i feel one can do that without bending the wrist with the bong...
one could argue that starting without the bend means the punch can fall away adding to its effectiveness and your range of motion transitioning into a Bui Sao can add momentum and inch power to the strike....

Thoughts ?

They are just different approaches suited to the different lineages. They are both right and have their advantages.

In Siu Lam WC we also use the crane wrist as a strike and our bong sao facilitates this as well. We also place heavy emphasis on Chin-na/joint manipulation and in some ways our bong sao facilitates certain grabbing/grasping techniques of this nature.

Also, when short range power is mastered a throat strike from this position will cut down on "wasted" time.

In all honesty i really cant see any 'major' concerns from doing it, its just how i was taught... so preference is the deciding factor IMO

Preference and perhaps the distinct peculiarities of each lineage/system.