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Thread: Bridging

  1. #1

    Bridging

    The other night we were working on bridging.
    This seemed more diffucult for my students that I expected. It turned into slapping more than linking.
    Any ideas for training this essential part of free sparring?

    I used the anaolgy of bridging like the recipe for cooking. You can know the finished dish, and you can know the ingrediants but the recipe is key to the final product.

    i.e the solo movements, the expected outcome but to link these together is something that I feel needs more attention.
    KUNG FU USA
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    Teaching traditional Ba Bu Tang Lang (Eight Step Praying Mantis)
    Jin Gon Tzu Li Gung (Medical) Qigong
    Wu style Taiji Chuan



    Teacher always told his students, "You need to have Wude, patient, tolerance, humble, ..." When he died, his last words to his students was, "Remember that the true meaning of TCMA is fierce, poison, and kill."

  2. #2
    Hi EarthDragon,

    When it comes to bridging in sparring we introduce it with a backfist to the face. The opponent has two choices: 1) block it, thus creating the bridge or 2) getting a backfist to the face.

    Where you go from here is really up to you. I find it best to give the students a set direction however so we avoid slap fighting.

    ie. Backfist to bridge > hook/grab or lean > enter close quarters fighting with 2 well placed hits and then take the person down.

    Very simple, but it is a great drill for basic bridging and where you can go from it.

  3. #3
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    Gentlemen, This is from Tony Puyot in response to your question. His work computer doesn't allow posting to these forums.
    Good luck,
    Randy Brown
    --

    "Earth dragon,

    Just so we both have the same understanding of what we define as bridging; Moving from being outside of striking range, to inside of striking range, without being countered by the enemy.

    I am a little unclear as to what you mean by linking, could you explain this a bit.

    So, in my world to move in without using some form of bridging tactic would invite a counter. The idea is to occupy the enemy in his/her mind, body or both so that they are unable to move or launch a counter attack the moment you cross that line (What we call Critical Distance).

    The most fundamental drill is setup out of range from your partner and then move in to attack with just a single strike, precipitated by various bridging tactics to occupy the enemy. This will give you outstanding feedback, the tactic works or doesn’t work. If not then the bridging tactic needs to be corrected or refined.

    An example of a bridging tactic is a “feint”. A body movement that simulates a precursor movement of an attack in a direction other than the intended one. As the enemy flinches or reacts they are locked into their movement and unable to react to the real attack that immediately follows the lie.

    Other tactics include Fakes, Distraction, Position Change, Programming, and Timing, to name a few. In our curriculum we have the above list of bridging strategies (and more) that students work to refine. Once they have all the tactics down they can choose to use what they like or what works best for them.

    Hope this helps,

    Tony Puyot

    PS - Come to San Diego and I'll be happy to go over our training methods with you."

  4. #4
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    Smile

    I believe bridging is found in all of the 12 keywords of the Greater Meihua Line specifically in Ti Na Feng Bi, where drills like Gou Lou Cai/Feng Shou and Pi Zha Wu Shou are designed to highlight this aspect of close quarter combat.

    Mantis108
    Contraria Sunt Complementa

    對敵交手歌訣

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    妙着。


    CCK TCPM in Yellowknife

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis108 View Post
    I believe bridging is found in all of the 12 keywords of the Greater Meihua Line specifically in Ti Na Feng Bi, where drills like Gou Lou Cai/Feng Shou and Pi Zha Wu Shou are designed to highlight this aspect of close quarter combat.

    Mantis108
    Thanks for the comment Robert. I have to disagree with you here. Those are at least not what we define as bridging. Those are the actual bridge of when contact is made but not the act of bridging itself. What we're specifically speaking of here is the act of going from a range with no ability to hit someone to being able to hit someone.

    Hope that clarifies.

    Randy
    Randy Brown
    Plum Blossom Academy
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    Martial Articles

  6. #6
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    Bridging...semantics. If you mean making a connection with the opponent to sense their energy to project or retract your own, use theirs against themselves, then you may want to look at moves within the upper/lower 8 elbows forms and intercepting fist form. Mantis moves in these forms can bring your opponent closer to do damage going in, clinging, thrusting away, hooking and dropping elbows to bring a face or body quickly in into your upthrusting knee, unweighting them to take their center, maneuver them for locks, tendon or joint damage. Much can be done with palms, wrists, forearms, elbows, shoulders along with a hip/waist/shoulder turn, dropped/lifted stance....
    Last edited by TaichiMantis; 07-02-2008 at 01:06 PM.
    "The true meaning of a given movement in a form is not its application, but rather the unlimited potential of the mind to provide muscular and skeletal support for that movement." Gregory Fong

  7. #7
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    i've heard bridging used to describe BOTH ideas that are being discussed.

    it's just a word, no need to say it can only be used to describe one thing is there?
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

    "If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"

    "Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"

    It's simpler than you think.

    I could be completely wrong"

  8. #8
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    Thought that was kind of strong as well Oso.
    I am still a student practicing - Wang Jie Long

    "Don`t Taze Me Bro"

  9. #9
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    What is bridging?
    I think it must be from Wing Chun, or some southern styles.

    No teacher I have ever had has made mention of this term in Chinese.

    In all the books of kung fu I have read I have never seen it, except, like I said in some southern books.

    It is not mentioned in Eight Step Mantis, and as far as I know, not any other branch of Mantis.

    Maybe, it is part of the vernacular of some Mantis schools which have lived in HK for many years?

    It is easier to talk about what we are trying to accomplish within the terminology of Mantis.

    So I think Mantis108 is on the right track in trying to translate it into mantis terminology.

  10. #10
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    All good stuff. I have found it hard (to say the least) to bridge using trapping, and other aspects of Mantis training (sticking, etc.) against a trained opponent. To be honest when I work with my boxing coach if I use some of my mantis stuff my teeth will be on the floor! So much of Mantis is dependent on your opponent reaching out with his arms. If he does not, I find it hard to work against.
    With trained partners / opponents you need to work into the clinch immediately otherwise you risk eating a fist, head, or elbow! Most of my training as of late has centered around the clinch range (all aspects of grappling and striking from it). I would suggest working some into your training, as this is how a real fight will most likely unfold.
    Cheers
    Jake
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  11. #11

    "Earth dragon,

    Just so we both have the same understanding of what we define as bridging; Moving from being outside of striking range, to inside of striking range, without being countered by the enemy.

    I am a little unclear as to what you mean by linking, could you explain this a bit.


    correct. I was looking for what others do to drill this into everyday practice. Itr seemed diffucult for my students to comprehend to teh degree that i was looking for, then i felt perhaps I had not taught corectly or spent enough time on it to become fluid. my overlook.

    linking in this sense just meant to connect the movements from outside sticking area to bridge then to attack and conquer.

    in 8 step we have our eight cardinal rules, one of which is
    "close the enemy with the long hand, then destroy them with the close hand"

    Just wanted to get some other ideas on training this vital point of combat. or at least real free sparring.

    Tainan,
    this rule is in 8 step and compares to bridging like twins. Symantics aside they are in deed the same.

    there is sooooo much information in the arts that one can spend lifetime just getting the ideas much less being proficent in these areas. I tend to learn myself everytime I teach.
    KUNG FU USA
    www.eightstepkungfu.com
    Teaching traditional Ba Bu Tang Lang (Eight Step Praying Mantis)
    Jin Gon Tzu Li Gung (Medical) Qigong
    Wu style Taiji Chuan



    Teacher always told his students, "You need to have Wude, patient, tolerance, humble, ..." When he died, his last words to his students was, "Remember that the true meaning of TCMA is fierce, poison, and kill."

  12. #12
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    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bridge


    2. a connecting, transitional, or intermediate route or phase between two adjacent elements, activities, conditions, or the like: Working at the hospital was a bridge between medical school and private practice.
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

    "If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"

    "Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"

    It's simpler than you think.

    I could be completely wrong"

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Three Harmonies View Post
    All good stuff. I have found it hard (to say the least) to bridge using trapping, and other aspects of Mantis training (sticking, etc.) against a trained opponent. To be honest when I work with my boxing coach if I use some of my mantis stuff my teeth will be on the floor! So much of Mantis is dependent on your opponent reaching out with his arms. If he does not, I find it hard to work against.
    With trained partners / opponents you need to work into the clinch immediately otherwise you risk eating a fist, head, or elbow! Most of my training as of late has centered around the clinch range (all aspects of grappling and striking from it). I would suggest working some into your training, as this is how a real fight will most likely unfold.
    Cheers
    Jake
    This still fits if you take Master Puyot's deifinition. Outside of the striking distance, punching you is 'reaching out the arms'. This is when bridging takes place. And once you enter inside the distance line, that when you have entered the 'clinch' ... to then employ your term.

  14. #14
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    Red-
    Good point. I was making more of a reference to "countering" or "responding" to my opponents attack, when I was talking about reaching out. I look at a nice tight guard as being foundationally superior to lets say just "blocking" with the arms. I can punch straight out, and back in which is basically the safest method of striking (remember that all strikes open us up to counters, and various techniques), yet it still leaves gaps that our opponent can fill.
    I was just trying to help ED out by mentioning that I believe (and Tony has the same opinion as we spoke about it not too long ago) that clinch range is one of the most important areas of combat that is most often overlooked! Especially in Mantis! Well.... lets be honest.... especially in CMA! The CMA has not developed a comprehensive clinch game IMO. I have had to import much of what I know from other styles. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of techniques found in CMA that are most useful in the clinch range, but actual strategy and skill wise I find this range lacking in many CMA curriculums.
    For instance I had a gentleman and lady stop by about two months ago and observe a class. I explained my group classes are combative in nature, and not style specific. That night we happened to be working a bit on Thai Clinch (Plam). They both made a comment that it did not "look" like CMA, and I said "Thank you." I then explained that the CMA do not really have a Thai Clinch in their curriculum, and that I would be ****ed if I did not prepare my students both defensively, and offensively for a technique that worked so **** good just because it is "not traditional CMA!"
    I hope more people follow Mr. Puyot's lead and start to really tear apart and analyze their arts subjectively for the betterment of both themselves and especially their students! Our biggest failure as practitioners / teachers would to have one of our students get their ass kicked because we did not teach them something just cus' it is not "in CMA!"

    Good discussion guys! Especially for KFO!!!

    Cheers
    Jake
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  15. #15
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    Smile

    Personally, I respect others approach of instruction. So it's perfectly fine with me about disagreement to my approach.

    As for the "discrepancy" between CMA and other arts in the clinch range, it is because CMA prefer to use Chin Na instead of clinching. We prefer to use Chin Na is because it is consistent with the idea of bridging (as in sticky hands, push hands etc). While the clinch is position base (about 6 of them in general), Chin Na is structure base IMHO. The main concern of clinching is positional dominance. Chin Na on the other hand is concerned with weakening and destroying the structure of the opponent which in layman's term is to disturb the opponent's balance. To achieve that Chin Na make use of "Jiao Men" (making a gate ajar) which is to draw the elbow(s) of opponent away from from his/her body; hence, in GML 12 keywords, lai jiao shun song is directly related to this area of techniques. In conjunction of Jiao Men, technique such as the ge zhou/qie zhou (cut elbow)which is basically a standing arm bar is used to break the structure of the opponent; therefore, taking control of his/her balance leading to a takedown which further control measure can be use on the opponent on the ground (not necessary about ground fighting). Of course, we might use wrist or shoulder joint to achieve this result as well. But the point is that creating Jiao Men and breaking the posture of the opponent are principles that make Chin Na work. Of course, we can argue that it doesn't necessarily work in pressure testing. But that's why we need to train with this understanding and not just blindly repeat prearranged sequences and favorable conditions that handed down without digesting what principle is involved first.

    BTW, thanks Kevin for seeing what I was trying to convey.

    Just a thought.

    Mantis108
    Last edited by mantis108; 07-05-2008 at 02:06 PM.
    Contraria Sunt Complementa

    對敵交手歌訣

    凡立勢不可站定。凡交手須是要走。千着萬着﹐走為上着﹐進為高着﹐閃賺騰挪為
    妙着。


    CCK TCPM in Yellowknife

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