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Thread: How do you master several different martial arts in a very short time?

  1. #31
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    Master Chan used to train 5 hours a day in Hung Kuen. If master Chan of the Hung Kuen style said to me that it would take him at least 8 years to teach Hung Kuen to me properly, how does anyone think that it is possible for me to master it in 9 - 10 years?

    Reply]
    Because he sux, and learned half assed backwards. THAT is why it takes these guys so long to learn and teach. they START with the forms. that is totally wrong. Only in MODERN times, like the last 3 generations did Kung fu training start there.

    I learned the first section of the Tiger Crane form. There is enough applications in the BOW alone to make a solid Hung gar fighter quickly. All you need is to drill that, and maybe the first section of the form with resisting partners, and have a detailed explanation of how those techniques are applied, and you can fight in the Hungar style. ANYONE who can't get a student proficient in 18 months either does not know how to teach, doesn't WANT to teach the art, or never knew it in the first place and only had the superfical most part of it (IE the forms)
    You have ZERO idea of WHO Chan was or what he meant, do you?
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  2. #32

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post

    They may be able to fight like an amateur boxers, kick boxers, but not like kung fu fighters we saw in films.
    Hey! want to know why when you see guys fight, it doesn't look like fights in films?

    BECAUSE IT IS A FUCKING MOVIE!

    This board is full of idiots, really it is
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    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
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    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
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    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    You have ZERO idea of WHO Chan was or what he meant, do you?
    I don't really care who he was, if he took EIGHT years to get a good fighter, and if he taught thousands, but less than ten are qualified to teach, after all that time, then his record speaks for itself, now doesn't it.

    [EDIT]
    I'd like to add, that the person in question could very well have been the best hung gar player ever, but that does not mean he can actually teach it. Also, his TEACHER may not have been a very good teacher either, and he managed to get good eventually, because of his own talent.

    Practicing an art, and TEACHING an art are two totally different skill sets. A Great martial artist does not = a great teacher.

    As I mentioned before, i can often teach something I either just learned, or am mimiking off of a tape better than the master can, despite not even knowing what I am teaching very well. Why is this? because i am a very good teacher, and I have a very methodical, step by step teaching methodology and i have a natural talent for identifying what is important and what needs to be taught when and at what stage.
    Last edited by RD'S Alias - 1A; 07-02-2008 at 02:50 PM.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Lama Pai Sifu View Post
    RD, when the fuck are you going to learn how to use the god damn quote function. You take what little pleasure there is away from reading the threads which you participate in. Press the QUOTE button INSTEAD of hitting REPLY~!

    Reply]
    You are really petty.

  5. #35
    you are really petty

    reply]

    yeah but it gets a bit annoying, please us the quote button
    there are only masters where there are slaves

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin Wookie View Post
    5. The reason you know you're wrong: I'm John Takeshi, and I said so, beeyotch.

  6. #36
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    Responce]
    Could it also be that Chan-Sifu holds himself and his teaching to a higher standard? Perhaps he doesn't cater to mediocrity. Perhaps people are used to getting what they want, their way, without actually recognizing and understanding what exactly it is they are supposed to be learning.
    This is why most people who practice Gung-Fu learn forms and sparring, and do not invest the proper time developing a foundation by stance training and lien-gung, and then years later, their Gung-Fu is merely an empty shell of what it's supposed to be. Then they sit and complain that it's inneffective. Perhaps it's because they never actually learned it in the first place. All they learned was forms and some "applications."
    Now they're 'Masters."

  7. #37
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    Answer]
    BTW, I believe he studied under Lam Sai-Wing.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post





    I do not know who train you and how the kung fu masters teach in America, but I do know that many Chinese martial arts teachers in London only teach their students forms, with very little application in fighting. I based my observation on how their students fight in tournaments, as well as my own experience. They fought like boxers and kick boxers, but unable to use any of their kung fu techniques.
    thats because they werent drilling application obviously, the answer is ptretty self explanetory, you fight how you train, if you train hitting the air then you'l become very good at hitting the air the opposite is also true.


    I used to know two Tai Chi teachers who had spent 15 years (2 hours per day training) learning from a traditional Chinese Tai Chi master. All they learned were forms and they could not even defence themselves in a fight! Therefore, until those kung fu instructors and masters change their minds about actually teaching their students something useful beside forms, then there is no way anyone can fight with their kung fu forms after 40 years of training, let alone 18 months.
    wel duhhh
    They may be able to fight like an amateur boxers, kick boxers,
    i resent that, since when did kick boxing or boxing become lesser arts?? they are equally if not more valid arts, they teach by and large whats applicable.
    but not like kung fu fighters we saw in films.
    NO ONE FIGHTS LIKE THEY DO IN FILMS, ITS A MOVIE, its there for ENTERTAINMENT.


    "I have several thousands of pupils, but not even ten of them are good enough to be instructors. Hung Kuen is a very difficult to learn and no one can teach others if he or she is not an expert. It takes at least eight years for me to teach the student properly, whereas people will learn for only two or three years before they leave."
    dont learn from this guy

    Master Chan used to train 5 hours a day in Hung Kuen. If master Chan of the Hung Kuen style said to me that it would take him at least 8 years to teach Hung Kuen to me properly, how does anyone think that it is possible for me to master it in 9 - 10 years?
    1. you will never master it, you will realise that there are more styles out there and that styles or systems dont mean anything. realise that mastering something means the end of learning, and that is never a good thing. learn it all, then forget it all.



    "Length of time to learn the whole system (able to use it in a fight)"
    since when have learning the whole system and being able to use it meant the same thing, i dont know every single wrestling move in the book but i can wrestle someone if i need to


    I am talking about learning the whole system and use it in a fight. I am not talking about learning few effective techniques.
    you dont need to learn the whole system to be able to use it in a fight, i'm no master at html but i can use it. how about this, go find someone who is teaching techniques against resisting opponents and making them work, then learn a few techniques, then when u got those down leanr a few more and so on and so on, forget about systems


    If anyone call themselves masters , then I would expect them to know (as well as mastered) at least 80 -100% of their kung fu system. However, if a half bucketful instructor who know less than 50% of his system and call himself/herself a master, then this makes the title "master" to become worthless.
    i'd rather have a teacher that knows 50% and can make that 50 work than someone who knows it all but makes me wait around for years "its better to train one kick a thousand times than train a thousand kicks once"


    The classical Japanese sword fighting school - Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu give 3 stages of acknowledgement of achievement to their students. A diligent student received his first scroll after about 5 years. He got his second scroll after another 5 years. The third scroll only awarded to senior instructors who have been trained with the Ryu for a total of 15 years. The American scholar, Don Draegar was the only non Japanese ever to have achieved this rank in the Ryu (before 1982).
    thats because they were probably a school that tought high ranked officials and their families and wanted to keep their business for a long time, during the 200 year peaceful era known as the "Tokugawa era"

    do you really think that a functional martial arts gym in feudal japan would take that long to train a warrior, feudal japan was turbulent and people were dying all the time

    most peoples lives would be over by the time they were 50 tops! they just didnt have the time to teach for that long to warriors who would be out fighting wars against other clans you couldnt spend that amount of time trainining

    saying that you need to learn for years and years is just a way of ensuring repeat business from gullible fools like yourself
    there are only masters where there are slaves

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin Wookie View Post
    5. The reason you know you're wrong: I'm John Takeshi, and I said so, beeyotch.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by TenTigers View Post
    Responce]
    Could it also be that Chan-Sifu holds himself and his teaching to a higher standard? Perhaps he doesn't cater to mediocrity. Perhaps people are used to getting what they want, their way, without actually recognizing and understanding what exactly it is they are supposed to be learning.
    This is why most people who practice Gung-Fu learn forms and sparring, and do not invest the proper time developing a foundation by stance training and lien-gung, and then years later, their Gung-Fu is merely an empty shell of what it's supposed to be. Then they sit and complain that it's inneffective. Perhaps it's because they never actually learned it in the first place. All they learned was forms and some "applications."
    Now they're 'Masters."
    Reply]
    This would be the fault of the teachers, not the student. The student can only absorb the material presented. if all that is is forms, then that is all he can get good at.

    When I teach, I do stances right away (structure), Qi Gong (Mechanics), Conditioning (specialized and general), basics, foot work and applications. I also have various competitive exercises designed to build positional and entry skills so the student can get to, and unleash thier techniques from a tactically superior, advantagous position. I teach this BEFORE even a single application.

    Once I can see the student has developed some footwork and positional skills, THEN I teach them the 18 Basic shaolin techniques (Modified to replace many with Tai tzu varients of course).

    In the first 3 months I can get a student fighting WITH the style on a beginning level. by 9-12 months they will be functional, and by 18 they are pretty good, because this is ALL I teach in that time.

    At 9 to 12 months, they test for the first level.

    After that, I start to add techniques from the first form. I don't actually teach the form's choreography till they are proficient in using all the techniques in actual competitive application.
    Last edited by RD'S Alias - 1A; 07-02-2008 at 04:48 PM.

  10. #40
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    Things I'm considering:

    Some styles, like Hung Gar, have tiger, snake, crane built into them... could this count for 3 styles right there? Some might argue that. And if you understand those concepts well, you might be able to pick up Wing Chun rather quickly. And if you get pretty good at Wing Chun and chi sau, you might be able to pick up a close-in style like southern mantis or Bak Mei, rather quickly.

    I spent 5 to 7 years studying those styles, mostly focusing on Wing Chun. I learned alot about bridging and sticking. That later helped me understand some concepts when training internal but it was different.

    Which brings me to another point. Seeing something (demonstrated or on video) doesn't mean you understand it. You understand what you see. Most of the time there's a lot of little detail in there. Details that make the difference.

    I don't know what any of these considerations mean or are worth. In the end, martial arts is very individualistic and follow the golden rule.... what you get out of it depends on what you put into it.

  11. #41
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    Answer = Simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    Dear all,
    How can someone master several different martial arts while having a full time job & social life?
    By being awesome.
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  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Pina View Post
    Things I'm considering:

    Some styles, like Hung Gar, have tiger, snake, crane built into them... could this count for 3 styles right there? Some might argue that. And if you understand those concepts well, you might be able to pick up Wing Chun rather quickly. And if you get pretty good at Wing Chun and chi sau, you might be able to pick up a close-in style like southern mantis or Bak Mei, rather quickly.

    I spent 5 to 7 years studying those styles, mostly focusing on Wing Chun. I learned alot about bridging and sticking. That later helped me understand some concepts when training internal but it was different.

    Which brings me to another point. Seeing something (demonstrated or on video) doesn't mean you understand it. You understand what you see. Most of the time there's a lot of little detail in there. Details that make the difference.

    I don't know what any of these considerations mean or are worth. In the end, martial arts is very individualistic and follow the golden rule.... what you get out of it depends on what you put into it.
    Reply]
    Well said.

    Many styles descended from the same source, and thus run on the same technology. The differences are in *How* the curriculum is organized, and in the stylistic flavors of expression. In other words, the differences are rather superficial, and thus easy to organize.

    If one knows one, they are really close to knowing all the styles of that family. If you pick the most complete one, then you just need minor adjustments to get the others.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lama Pai Sifu View Post
    RD, when the fuck are you going to learn how to use the god damn quote function. You take what little pleasure there is away from reading the threads which you participate in. Press the QUOTE button INSTEAD of hitting REPLY~!
    That's it, Sifu Parrella! I'll be stateside in three weeks. I'll be coming to NYC! I'll be coming after you!!! Lock your doors! Hide your pets! The menace is comin'! Oh yeah! YYYRRRAAAAAAAAARRRRGGHHHHH!!!
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD'S Alias - 1A View Post
    I don't really care who he was, if he took EIGHT years to get a good fighter, and if he taught thousands, but less than ten are qualified to teach, after all that time, then his record speaks for itself, now doesn't it.

    [EDIT]
    I'd like to add, that the person in question could very well have been the best hung gar player ever, but that does not mean he can actually teach it. Also, his TEACHER may not have been a very good teacher either, and he managed to get good eventually, because of his own talent.

    Practicing an art, and TEACHING an art are two totally different skill sets. A Great martial artist does not = a great teacher.

    As I mentioned before, i can often teach something I either just learned, or am mimiking off of a tape better than the master can, despite not even knowing what I am teaching very well. Why is this? because i am a very good teacher, and I have a very methodical, step by step teaching methodology and i have a natural talent for identifying what is important and what needs to be taught when and at what stage.
    I wonder about you, seriously.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  15. #45

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