For Sal Canzonieri Re:Tan Tui

[Shaolin Master]

Thanks, I was thinking of Er Lang Quan, not Er Lang Men.
The Er Lang Quan I was thinking of was part of the material that General Zhao taught in Hebei area, along with other stuff he taught such as Jin Gang Chui, and Fanzi Chuo Jiao material.

Looking at those Er Lang Quan sets on youtube, you can see some kind of similarity to movements also seen in Yan Qing / MiSong and also Cha Quan / Tan Tui.

Why are they so similar? At least on the surface?

But, there also is a resemblance to Fanzi too. Again, at least on the surface.

What's the history of Er Lang Men system?

Not all Er Lang Quan sets are from Er Lang Men system.
Same way that many styles have a Wu Song Breaks Manacles set.

Actually, Erlangquan and Jingangquan sets are actually differently featured to the other aspectis of Chuojiao ....so you should be careful with that.

The Beijing Chuojiao fanzi sets are also not really Bafanquan as much as the singular sets of chuojiao that were renamed, again be careful with nomenclature.

The similarities of Yanqing, Erlang etc...is that they have all influenced one another a different stages of their evolution. No real resemblance to Fanzi ...unless your surface is very shallow but then everything becomes the same...

History of Erlang will post later but there are offshoots of northern type of Shaolin in some literature.

and Yes not all erlangquan sets are from erlangmen so be careful to not mix them up...

Cheers,
Wu Chanlong

[Sal Canzonieri]

Actually, Erlangquan and Jingangquan sets are actually differently featured to the other aspectis of Chuojiao ....so you should be careful with that.

The Beijing Chuojiao fanzi sets are also not really Bafanquan as much as the singular sets of chuojiao that were renamed, again be careful with nomenclature.

The similarities of Yanqing, Erlang etc...is that they have all influenced one another a different stages of their evolution. No real resemblance to Fanzi ...unless your surface is very shallow but then everything becomes the same...

History of Erlang will post later but there are offshoots of northern type of Shaolin in some literature.

and Yes not all erlangquan sets are from erlangmen so be careful to not mix them up...

Cheers,
Wu Chanlong

ok, well, it woudl eb very cool of you to post some kind of history of Er Lang Men, and also something outlining what the different fanzi / chuo jiao styles are and so forth, something that will help get one's bearings.

Also, what is General Zhao's Jingangquan like?

[Shaolin Master]

Lest someone misunderstand this and make assumptions that aren't correct:

I've been practicing and learning CMA since 1975.

All the forms that I post about, I have actually learned and I only post about material that I have done at least for 10 years of time.

So, it's not that I am 'Comparing videos", I am comparing what I do in one form to what i do in another form.

I may show it to you via a video, but it's not videos I am comparing, it's real movements and postures in actual sets that I have hands on experience with for at least a decade.

ok, well, it woudl eb very cool of you to post some kind of history of Er Lang Men, and also something outlining what the different fanzi / chuo jiao styles are and so forth, something that will help get one's bearings.

Also, what is General Zhao's Jingangquan like?

In terms of Chuojiao this has been outlined in the below
http://www.satirio.com/ma/chuojiao/lineage.html

and a smaller treatise on Beijing Chuojiao Fanzi as well below:
http://www.satirio.com/ma/chuojiao/beijing.html

Regarding Jinggangquan/chui, the reason it is called 'jinggang' as commonly known by all of us that practice it in Chuojiao (which are only a few of the older lines) is because it focuses on the 5 hardnesses into one. This principle is to provide structure which is similar to its sister set of Liuhegen. Whilst later sets have different focuses.

Erlangmen is a completely different thing and will appear on the website sometime in early 2009.

But I do not get it, if you had commented does that not mean that you studied them before and would know such things !

Kind Regards,
Wu Chanlong

[Sal Canzonieri]

In terms of Chuojiao this has been outlined in the below
http://www.satirio.com/ma/chuojiao/lineage.html

and a smaller treatise on Beijing Chuojiao Fanzi as well below:
http://www.satirio.com/ma/chuojiao/beijing.html

Regarding Jinggangquan/chui, the reason it is called 'jinggang' as commonly known by all of us that practice it in Chuojiao (which are only a few of the older lines) is because it focuses on the 5 hardnesses into one. This principle is to provide structure which is similar to its sister set of Liuhegen. Whilst later sets have different focuses.

Erlangmen is a completely different thing and will appear on the website sometime in early 2009.

But I do not get it, if you had commented does that not mean that you studied them before and would know such things !

Kind Regards,
Wu Chanlong

Never said I studied these two particular sets.
I'm talking about the sets that I have written articles on in the past and currently, that I have been researching the origins of.
History wise, other styles and sets seem to cross over into areas that I am researching, so that's why they come up and I comment on them.
Thanks.

Is this JinGang Ba shi set anything like the JinGang Chui set from the Chuojiao Fanzi stuff?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XO85ewT6Ik


(****! What is the best name to use for the entire system that General Zhao taught without getting it confused with the Beijing style of the same name?)

[Shaolin Master]

Never said I studied these two particular sets.
I'm talking about the sets that I have written articles on in the past and currently, that I have been researching the origins of.
History wise, other styles and sets seem to cross over into areas that I am researching, so that's why they come up and I comment on them.
Thanks.

Is this JinGang Ba shi set anything like the JinGang Chui set from the Chuojiao Fanzi stuff?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XO85ewT6Ik

No Jinggang Bashi is different thing, the most common Jinggang Bashi is that of Tianjin from Master Shi Yushan (石玉山), the set was assimilated into a few other styles like Bajiquan (Both Huo and Li lineages).

fyi.....the names Er Lang, Jin Gang, Ba Wang etc are used regularly as they are like saints, deities or warriors of heaven type legends............

Chuojiao Jingangquan/chui is difficult to find good representation:

There is a clip of one of my students a few years ago after having just learned the set so the performance a bit poor is not the best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PcYS...eature=related

also version by An jiyong, seemingly different but within there are some related techniques and that is because it was re-odered/sequenced for the filming:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QwTW...eature=related

Both are only a very small part as the set is quite long.

The issues is that Zhao Canyi did not really teach all alone everywhere, sometimes there were other teachers and troops which confuses the issue :-)....
Naming, we just apply the names according to lineages such as explained in previously advised http://www.satirio.com/ma/chuojiao/lineage.html.