All these movements are the same

[Sal Canzonieri]

There is a major movement/posture that seems to be in common, with slight variation (due to chronological and stylistic evolution), between all the following styles (in Chronological order):

Tong Bei Quan: Pi Shan Zhang - Split Mountain Palm
Shaolin Chan Yuan: Li Pi Hua Shan - Forcibily Split Hua Mountain
Shaolin Luohan 13 Gong: Lao Seng Pi Chai - Old Monk Splits Wood
Shaolin Yuan Hou Quan (Ape Monkey Fist): Shrink body Double Acknowledge Fingers - Su Shen Shang Ren Zhi
Shaolin Rou Quan 36: Turn Body Right, Plundering / Intercepting Hand - Zhuan Shen You Lu / Lan Shou
Yue Jia Quan and XY: Splitting Fist - Pi Quan
Yue Shi Ba Fan Shou - Strike Side Face Palm - Pu Mian Zhang
Hua Quan 18 Luohan: Ying Qia Suo - Eagle Seizes Gullet
Shaolin Xiao Hong Quan: Turn Face Right, Pulling Hand - Zhuan Lian You, Ban Shou
Shaolin Tai Zu Chang Quan: Turn Right, Face To Face Pulling Hand - Ying-Mian Ban
Chen TJQ Yi Lu: Lazy (Block) Tying Coat - Lan Zha Yi
Yang TJQ: Grasp Sparrow's Tail.

All these sets do this movement near their beginning as they turn to the right.

MOST of these sets follow it up that above movement with a variation of "Single Whip" and most of them call that next move "Single Whip" even if it looks different.

[Royal Dragon]

Is "face to face, pull hand single whip?"

[Sal Canzonieri]

Is "face to face, pull hand single whip?"

No, it is the face slap thing that happens as the second movement in the 32.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Hey Royal, I have been learning the Yue Shi Ba Fan shou sets from a friend.

I have been able to find most of the TZ 32 in it, very easily, and some Lao Hong quan. The rest of 5 elements quan.

Very weird!

[Royal Dragon]

What is Yue Shi Ba Fan shou?

[Sal Canzonieri]

What is Yue Shi Ba Fan shou?

Watch these videos of this form (these are videos of the first section of 8 rows, there are 3 sections of 8 rows in total):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N63rIaKKXX8
(this guy does with too fast with no whole body movement, but you can get the idea, if you slow it down and do the movements clearer it is obvious they are all also seen in TZ Chang Quan 32 and especially in the Lao Hong Quan 108.)

This guy does it better but too external

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtU2IauK9KQ

[GeneChing]

Check out The Rosetta Stone of Traditional Chinese Martial Arts by Salvatore Canzonieri, just posted on our e-zine. We have a downloadible chart, plus Sal's collection of vids on the subject.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Check out The Rosetta Stone of Traditional Chinese Martial Arts by Salvatore Canzonieri, just posted on our e-zine. We have a downloadible chart, plus Sal's collection of vids on the subject.

Thanks very much! Nice to see it available to others.

Stay tuned for my new 200 page book on the subject of how and why Bagua Zhang, Liu He Zinyi / Xingyi Quan, and Taiji Quan are interrelated and have common roots in Ba Shan Fan / Chuo Jiao, Tong Bei Quan, Hong Quan, Taizhu Chang Quan, Wu Quan, Meihua Zhuang, Mizhong, Yue Jia Quan, and more.
It's a mystery "who done it" historical book that traces all the interconnections of "who taught what to whom, when and where" and has many very surprising revelations and vary rare information that I gathered from over 20 years of research interviewing many old practitioners that are no long dead.
If I didn't write it, I would have loved finding a book like this.

[Sal Canzonieri]

This is really outstanding work and a great service to the martial arts community. Very meticulous scholarship.

I asked a Daoist monk here why everyone at these modern wushu temples is doing Taiji as it came through Chen Style which is lifted directly from hong quan, yet they claim more pure lineage than the Chen family directly to Jiang Fa.

Even CCTV was making these kind of claims. I am also sick of hearing that Shaolin is external. Its nonsense. There is internal and there not practicing enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMGO2...hp?article=807 This in particular is very well done.

Thanks.

Well, the reason that Chen credits Jiang Fa is all written about in my new book, and I also write about how and when Chen drew from Shaolin, and what exactly was taken.
It's a complicated story and the reason they don't credit Shaolin has to do with a massacre that happened at Shaolin by an invading army of rebels.
Chen style is a merger of Shaolin AND Taoist 13 Postures routine (5 elements and 8 trigrams or directions).
Jiang Fa and others taught the Chen's the Taoist 13 Postures.

But, the irony is that the 13 Postures came from Shaolin originally and they lost it over time. During that time, the Taoists had learned it and developed it into their Wudang Nei Jia Quan style, so now they are best known for the 13 postures.
Again this is all in my new book.
Soon as I get all the comments back from the reviewers I sent it too, I will make the final draft and layout the pages with graphics and then shop it to publishers.

On top of all this, Shaolin in the Qing Dynasty had a Chan Taiji Quan set that was developed by a nun, she had learned Wudang Taiji and merged it with Shaolin Quan to create it. I have seen versions of it on videos at Google video.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...st+taiji&hl=en

[Baqualin]

Thanks.

Well, the reason that Chen credits Jiang Fa is all written about in my new book, and I also write about how and when Chen drew from Shaolin, and what exactly was taken.
It's a complicated story and the reason they don't credit Shaolin has to do with a massacre that happened at Shaolin by an invading army of rebels.
Chen style is a merger of Shaolin AND Taoist 13 Postures routine (5 elements and 8 trigrams or directions).
Jiang Fa and others taught the Chen's the Taoist 13 Postures.

But, the irony is that the 13 Postures came from Shaolin originally and they lost it over time. During that time, the Taoists had learned it and developed it into their Wudang Nei Jia Quan style, so now they are best known for the 13 postures.
Again this is all in my new book.
Soon as I get all the comments back from the reviewers I sent it too, I will make the final draft and layout the pages with graphics and then shop it to publishers.

On top of all this, Shaolin in the Qing Dynasty had a Chan Taiji Quan set that was developed by a nun, she had learned Wudang Taiji and merged it with Shaolin Quan to create it. I have seen versions of it on videos at Google video.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...st+taiji&hl=en

Awesome!!
Thanks to Gene for publishing the charts & many thanks to Sal for your work!!!! GM Sin has told us for years about Chen drawing from Shaolin (legends of course).....now your putting it all together. Is there any way I can get an autographed copy of the book from you when it comes out???
BQ

[Sal Canzonieri]

Awesome!!
Thanks to Gene for publishing the charts & many thanks to Sal for your work!!!! GM Sin has told us for years about Chen drawing from Shaolin (legends of course).....now your putting it all together. Is there any way I can get an autographed copy of the book from you when it comes out???
BQ

Sure, why not?