questions about tan tui

[Hitman]

Dear all,
Does anyone know what are the reasons behind:

a) When you are in a bow stance, with one hand in front of you and the other hand behind you. You then bend forward and bring both of you arms toward your chest. You then swinging both of your arms out, while you are in a bow stance. I think it is road 3.
At first I thought it is a double groin strikes, but the position you are in make it impossible to be double groin strikes.
What is the purpose of this move?

b) Are most of the kicks aim for the knee and waist?

c) If your jump kick missed, what is the defence you would use when your opponet does a stop hit (kick) to your chest, just as you are about to land?
(road 8 or 7)

4) I think in some of the tan tui movements, you deliberately rotate your forearm. What is the purpose of rotating your forearm?

5) In all the roads you start off:
you stand straight and feet together.
your left hand is a straight fist
Your right hand (palm) underneath your left armpit

What is the purpose of this movement?

Sorry I cannot find the link to the web site ,where I got the pictures of the tan tui sequences. I could not tell from the pictures, what are the purpose of those moves. Therefore, I need your help.

Thank you very much
Hitman

[MightyB]

a. there are variations between schools- this doesn't sound like the third road to me- it sounds more like #9 which I was shown as you're countering your opponent's chin na counter.

b. Yes - but the springing leg refers to the knee kick that's repeated a billion times throughout the form.

c. You're screwed.

4) wrist control (seriously)

5) Watch Bruce Lee's first fight on the island with Bob Wall in Enter the Dragon. I've also been shown that move as a counter to a opposite arm single wrist grab.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Dear all,
Does anyone know what are the reasons behind:

a) When you are in a bow stance, with one hand in front of you and the other hand behind you. You then bend forward and bring both of you arms toward your chest. You then swinging both of your arms out, while you are in a bow stance. I think it is road 3.
At first I thought it is a double groin strikes, but the position you are in make it impossible to be double groin strikes.
What is the purpose of this move?

b) Are most of the kicks aim for the knee and waist?

c) If your jump kick missed, what is the defence you would use when your opponet does a stop hit (kick) to your chest, just as you are about to land?
(road 8 or 7)

4) I think in some of the tan tui movements, you deliberately rotate your forearm. What is the purpose of rotating your forearm?

5) In all the roads you start off:
you stand straight and feet together.
your left hand is a straight fist
Your right hand (palm) underneath your left armpit

What is the purpose of this movement?

Sorry I cannot find the link to the web site ,where I got the pictures of the tan tui sequences. I could not tell from the pictures, what are the purpose of those moves. Therefore, I need your help.

Thank you very much
Hitman

These are the most important things about tan tui and CMA in general.

a) this is a throw really it is from tong bei, you swing to avoid incoming strike, then as their strike is still in motion, you use their momentum against them and upset their balance and tip them over. It's a basic move found in all tong bei drills.

b) yes, kicks are more than kicks, they are extensions of your body that trip the other person, you like is wedge.

c) done this many times, you yield back and swing your arm under their kick and scoop it up as you stand up, throwing the person back as they flip upside down.

4) rotating the forearm is what keeps you from getting it broken as someone strikes. If you leave it out without rotating, you are inviting a straight down axe on to your bone and it will break. Also, rotating the arm forces the incoming strike to rotate out of range without hurting you. This is a foundamental movement in CMA and all styles do this in some way or another. It is a variation of drilling.

5) That is only done in modern versions of tan tui, like the 12 tan tui. It's just to keep you from wandering your arm from where it should be.

Purpose? If someone grabs your arm, you can wipe their hand off.

[Hitman]

Dear all,
Thank you.

Tan tui resemble western fencing, choy lee fut kung fu and other kung fu styles.

1) You are in a bow stance, with one hand in front of you and the other hand behind you.

a)This movement resemble the lunge used in western fencing. Therefore, it should also containing the same weakness as in western fencing. The weakness is the counter attack/ stop hit to your knee and chest. What is the best defence to avoid thoses stop hit?

b) What is the purpose of putting one hand behind your back, while your other hand in the front does the attack? In western fencing the back hand is for balance.
Does this also apply to movement 1?
or is there a secret movement of leaving your hand behind your back?

Thank you

[TenTigers]

One hand in front with the other in back as you put it, teaches you the body mechanics, for the jik kuen. Once you understand the mechanics,the open bow stance (as opposed to the closed bow, in this case, the kwa is open) the hip and shoulder rotation and the extension of the body and arms, and the coiling/whipping of the spine,then you can shorten it up and bring your rear hand into the guard position. It is a tool. There is a Hebei Hsing-Yi Tan-Tuei that illustrates this.
"From the large, comes the small"

Rotating of the arm comes after the strike. Yes, it can be a locking maneuver, it can be counter locking maneuver, or it can be a running hand, which means, if the strike is blocked, it can circle around and continue to strike.

The hand under the arm as it strikes can be a simultaneous trap/deflect and strike. IMO using one hand to peel away, and then striking is counterproductive-too many movements, when simply hitting would suffice. Too many people get into the block, block, block, then hit mentality when they play application. IMO, TCMA was never meant to be practiced with such an inefficient mentality.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Chinese Moslem MA are often made for fighting multiple attackers at once.
The back hand movements has degenerated over time to become useless.

It was originally made to move so that you struck someone in back of you at the same time as in front.

In old days, Chinese Moslems were feared for the MA and so they were often attacked by multiple people. There was strong prejudice against them in some areas.

Also, the movements in tan tui can be used as take down movements.

[Shaolinlueb]

trying to think of something whitty and quirky to say but i cant think of it right now.
shoot. oh well.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Chinese Moslem MA are often made for fighting multiple attackers at once.
The back hand movements has degenerated over time to become useless.

It was originally made to move so that you struck someone in back of you at the same time as in front.

In old days, Chinese Moslems were feared for the MA and so they were often attacked by multiple people. There was strong prejudice against them in some areas.

Also, the movements in tan tui can be used as take down movements.

I don't know Sal, that sounds pretty far fetched, anyone that has ever fought more than one person knows that the worse you can do is try to strike two people that the same time.

[bawang]

Chinese Moslem MA are often made for fighting multiple attackers at once.
The back hand movements has degenerated over time to become useless.

It was originally made to move so that you struck someone in back of you at the same time as in front.

In old days, Chinese Moslems were feared for the MA and so they were often attacked by multiple people. There was strong prejudice against them in some areas.

Also, the movements in tan tui can be used as take down movements.

mister cazoneri is right this is exactly what it is for. also, if youhit with the forearms u have to swing really far back
also can be a habit from using the saber because u need a counterbalance and some styles are just sloppy, but the main reason is what mister cazoneri said

[huolung]

Chinese Moslem MA are often made for fighting multiple attackers at once.
The back hand movements has degenerated over time to become useless.

It was originally made to move so that you struck someone in back of you at the same time as in front.

In old days, Chinese Moslems were feared for the MA and so they were often attacked by multiple people. There was strong prejudice against them in some areas.

Also, the movements in tan tui can be used as take down movements.

No, this is not some exotic usage, whereby students learn how to knock out two opponents, a shorter one in front and a taller one in back, at the same time. This is mental training, and it can be found in movements throughout all the long fist forms. -Adam Hsu

Namaste

[YouKnowWho]

Also, the movements in tan tui can be used as take down movements.

You may give more credit to Tan Tui then it deserves. The Tan Tui #4 can be used as "front cut" but the others are pure "striking" only. Someone said that Tan Tui #2 can be used as "hip throw". Since there is no "bending head to touch the legs" in #2, it will be too abstract to assume that.