Increasing flexability -- leg stretcher vs old school?

[TigerCrane NYC]

Hi everyone,

Long time lurker, first time poster here.

I've been training for just over a year, and while I've seen a great increase in my flexibility, I've still a loooong way to go when it comes to high kicks as well as splits.

Now that I've got past the stage where I feel like I'm dying every day I would like to start honing on increasing my flexibility.

I've seen these leg stretchers advertised, and I am wondering if they are any good, in general.

What I've been doing for the past couple of weeks is: every day I put aside a few minutes and stand with my legs spread as far as they will go. After 5 minutes I can feel the effect it's having on my inner thighs. I think my footwork has seen an increase in stability as a result. As my legs loosen up, I've been letting gravity do its thing and inch my legs out a bit at a time, increasing my maximum spread by 2-3" over the 5 minutes. My other question is: will this actually help increase my flexibility?

A little bit about myself: I am currently 38, and started kung-fu after 37 years of not doing any kind of MA training, so I'm very new at this. I'm in this for the long haul and am not expecting instant results, I know this comes from months/years of long, arduous training.

Any insight/tips would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There are many types of flexablity.
For the MA the ideal type is dynamic, in other words, flexability while in MOVEMENT, like a high kick for example, not STATIC flexability like in the splits.
However, if you wanna do the splits, then the best way to do it is to, do the splits and gradually goes as low as you can, GRADUALLY !
Do this at the END of your workout when your muscles are lose.
Don't do any strength training after this because your muscles will be weaker.
Flexability for the splits is not just in the legs, you have to work the hip and back muscles too.

[TigerCrane NYC]

Thanks much!

[TenTigers]

Be careful when purchasing a stetching machine.

Many do not adequately support the knees and instead put all the pressure on the ankles. This pushes the leg bearing lateral pressure on the knees which don't bend that way. Tendons, ligaments are not resiliant,and will result in quite possibly, permanant injury. I use the one by Century, as it has thigh pads. I use it when I'm watching TV.

That being said, people in Chinese Opera, Wu-Shu, as well as gymnastics and ballet, and also yoga, have accomplished great flexibilty for centuries without the use of stretch machines.

Remember, you are older and these injuries are not something you will snap back from like you did when you were younger.

[TigerCrane NYC]

Thanks, TenTigers.

I guess I am more curious as to whether I'm on the right path or not.

[cjurakpt]

just consider, by his own admission, Bill Wallace was tight as all get out at least into his 20's , possibly 30's (I forget exactly what he said, it was ~20 years ago...)...

as far as a method of stretching per se, I would strongly recommend Iyengar style yoga specifically - it is very systematic, uses a lot of assistive devices (blocks, straps) for newbs / people w/structural limitations and the quality control of their instructors is uncharacteristically high

[SoCo KungFu]

Before I injured my back a couple years ago on a work related incident, I was the guy that you would see suspending myself over various inanimate objects in full splits or jumping in and out of em and all that crazy fu...

Now there are probably safer ways to go by especially at your age (and possibly fitness, dunno where you're at, I always played sports so kung fu wasn't a shock to my system as it was for others)...

but my general stretching routine was...

1) Start with joint rotations if you aren't already warmed up. If you finished a workout and are warm cool, if not get the joints movin'

2) I would just hang my upper torso down. Really completely limp and sorta sway. Legs straight tho, just don't pass out haha...would do that for about a minute or two

3) Leg swings, like kicks but keeping your leg straight. Now I know what most people are thinking, ballistic stretching is a big no no. But I have honestly never been injured or seen anyone injured by them. If you are mature enough to know your limits and start slow and low, then gradually work up higher as you get more limber then I see no reason not to do em, especially since dynamic flexibility is the goal yeah?

4) More torso hangs, this time pull down try and touch the ground or grab your ankles whatever. I'd do a few rounds of that for bout 10-15 seconds each. Dunno that's just what I did, maybe doin it just a while straight is better...

5) Then I'd do back bridges. Dunno if that's within your capabilities. If not, just lay on your back with your knees up and do pelvic thrusts. Going back to what Ronin said, hips and back....

6) Side to sides like you would see runners do...I do about 30 of em getting slightly faster toward the end

7) Only then after all that I did splits. Then it was center, then side and other side. Did about 2 or 3 sets each depending how I felt.

After I felt I was reasonably stable in splits to either side, not necessarily flat but stable and it didn't hurt, I started doing reps of tension in the stretch. Building strength in elongated position...that's way down the road though....

Now as I said, check out some the stuff others have posted. That's just what I did to get my flexibility...just be smart and be careful whatever you do...nothing sets you back like an injury...and I'm still young enough to "pop back up"

Oh and as far as the stretching machine goes...just save your money yo...
When you get in a center split try to just relax your muscles. Stretch your arms out in front of you on the floor and just slowly try to "walk" out with your hands. Relax and breath...there's your stretching machine experience.

[Mr Punch]

Don't do any strength training after this because your muscles will be weaker.

I often wonder about this. If I do weights alternate days and stretches in between and just after the weights that's OK presumably?

And does the same apply to yoga?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I often wonder about this. If I do weights alternate days and stretches in between and just after the weights that's OK presumably?

And does the same apply to yoga?

Yes.
High degree of flexability is a workout unto itself.
Many can spend 40 to 60 minutes on a routine to MAINTAIN their high level flexability.
Flexability is one of the hardest things to maintain by the way.
Strength being one of the easiest and one of the most long lasting.

[TigerCrane NYC]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the more in-depth replies.

I should've stated this earlier, but I'm in very good physical shape: I'm about 5ft 6in tall and weigh in at around 155 lbs. I was a casual Olympic style foil fencer (did it for the exercise and fun, not competition) prior to kung-fu, so no weight/health issues to speak of. I also had, compared to the average American, very good range of motion. Compared to the rigours of kung-fu it's mediocre, however.

By way of a follow-up:

Last night was my first training session after the July 4th weekend, and I definitely noticed an improvement in my overall footwork (more stable) as well as my kicking (better overall balance, more speed and height). By 'improvement' I mean something along the lines of a +2% degree, small but definitely affected the outcome.

So Co, thanks for the detailed breakdown. I'm going to print it up and put it on my fridge!

[SoCo KungFu]

Well as I said that's just what I did...results may vary...

Just give it time, be patient. Flexibility is one of those things, for some its easy and others its not.

A lot of it has to do with orientation. Balance, stability and stuff will come as you do more in kung fu. Again just takes time...

One thing I will say though my sifu would say to us, "Strength and Flexibility are the king and queen of physical fitness"

In other words they are theoretical opposits but they really work together to create an overall physical health. So while you are focusing on flexibility don't forget your strength. The stronger the muscles the less you will have to "force" your way through techniques. You will be able to relax more at least in my experience "loosen up"

[maxattck]

As others have posted, dynamic flexiblilty is used for kicking, luckly it's also the easist to achieve with dynamic stretches. Basically legs swings, but controlled not balistic. you should be able to stop the movement anywere along its line. Do these every morning as soon as you get up in all directions in sets of 3 x 10 reps. the last set is close to full speed. Isometric streching is the fastest way to achieve passive flexiblity, but never do iso's before any activity. Instead do them at the end of your work out.

Leg strength also plays a huge part in flexiblity, the stronger your legs are the more flexibly. Squats and deadlifts are a must.

Here a link you may find use full, the book helped me acheive my splits, as well as kicking as high as I like cold, no warm up.

http://www.stadion.com/stretching_scientifically.html

hope this helps

[RUFNTUFGIRL]

Before I injured my back a couple years ago on a work related incident, I was the guy that you would see suspending myself over various inanimate objects in full splits or jumping in and out of em and all that crazy fu...

Now there are probably safer ways to go by especially at your age (and possibly fitness, dunno where you're at, I always played sports so kung fu wasn't a shock to my system as it was for others)...

but my general stretching routine was...

1) Start with joint rotations if you aren't already warmed up. If you finished a workout and are warm cool, if not get the joints movin'

2) I would just hang my upper torso down. Really completely limp and sorta sway. Legs straight tho, just don't pass out haha...would do that for about a minute or two

3) Leg swings, like kicks but keeping your leg straight. Now I know what most people are thinking, ballistic stretching is a big no no. But I have honestly never been injured or seen anyone injured by them. If you are mature enough to know your limits and start slow and low, then gradually work up higher as you get more limber then I see no reason not to do em, especially since dynamic flexibility is the goal yeah?

4) More torso hangs, this time pull down try and touch the ground or grab your ankles whatever. I'd do a few rounds of that for bout 10-15 seconds each. Dunno that's just what I did, maybe doin it just a while straight is better...

5) Then I'd do back bridges. Dunno if that's within your capabilities. If not, just lay on your back with your knees up and do pelvic thrusts. Going back to what Ronin said, hips and back....

6) Side to sides like you would see runners do...I do about 30 of em getting slightly faster toward the end

7) Only then after all that I did splits. Then it was center, then side and other side. Did about 2 or 3 sets each depending how I felt.

After I felt I was reasonably stable in splits to either side, not necessarily flat but stable and it didn't hurt, I started doing reps of tension in the stretch. Building strength in elongated position...that's way down the road though....

Now as I said, check out some the stuff others have posted. That's just what I did to get my flexibility...just be smart and be careful whatever you do...nothing sets you back like an injury...and I'm still young enough to "pop back up"

Oh and as far as the stretching machine goes...just save your money yo...
When you get in a center split try to just relax your muscles. Stretch your arms out in front of you on the floor and just slowly try to "walk" out with your hands. Relax and breath...there's your stretching machine experience.

Do you keep the foot flexed or pointed? I have very tight hams and this sounds helpful.

[cjurakpt]

Do you keep the foot flexed or pointed? I have very tight hams and this sounds helpful.

it has less to do with hams, more to do with gastroc/soleus: when you point toes, you put calves on slack, and because gastroc also crosses the knee joint, it makes it easier

a "hint" about stretching hams: the key is to target correctly: here's how: sit on the floor, one leg straight out, other leg bent w/foot tucked in, sole against inside of the opposite thigh (the straight one) - this is like the opposite of the position the bent leg takes in a traditional hurdlers stretch;
now, you want to "pretend" that the knee of the straight leg is literally nailed to the floor - it is the distal en of hams, and you want this completely immoile
you will stretch hams by rotating the pelvis anteriorly, which causes the ischial tuberosities (the sit bones) to rotatate back - this is what elongates the hams (their proximal attchment is on the IT's); the way to do this, anteriorly rotate the pelvis is actually as simple as trying to sit up straight - so start in a bit of a slocuh / sclump - then inhale and and sit up tall, slightly arching the low back - you should feel the pull on the back of the leg - this targets hams - what most peeps do is round the low back and lean forwards - no, no, o - that puts hams on slack and stretches the lumbars into flexion, somethng they dont want to really do from there;
so anyway, if you can sit up tall and not feel the stretch, the next part is to keep that posture, and then fold forwards at the hip - when you do this, think about projecting out and up - literally look up and out as you do this - this maintins the tension as you elongate

if you look at how Iyengar does this, it's pretty much the same method

IMPE this is the best way to target hams sitting on the floor

[RUFNTUFGIRL]

I have been doing that stretch after workouts. Recently, I have started to work on placing myself in a supine position with one leg flat and taking the other and straightning it (using a band) as far to my head as possible. All that I feel is incredible pain. I really need someone to push the leg towards me. Anyway, I have not seen any change.