Shaolin Temple vs WuShu

[Zhang Yong Chun]

Folks,

I don't mean to start a huge war. I am just asking a simple question. After researching the current Shaolin Temple and all of its off-shoots, I wonder, what is the difference between what they do and the modern sport of Wushu?

What is the standard curriculum of both arts?

Also, how Buddhist are the Monks?

This is not to question anyone's "authenticity". I'm just trying to understand the standard routines and how they are similar and different.

[SimonM]

1) Wushu vs. Traditional: Traditional martial arts do (apparently) exist at Shaolin Temple but the stuff that gets taught in the billion and a half schools in Dengfeng is mostly just modern wushu.

2) How buddhist are the monks:

They score a rating of 1.6 kilo-sanghas on the buddhosity scale.

[LFJ]

awesome answer, simon.

[NJM]

The monks can eat meat and do some other stuff most Buddhist monks aren't allowed to.

[B-Rad]

Here's my basic understanding (and I tried to keep it as simple as possible):

Basically, many of the martial arts monks are wushu athletes, and I know some were pretty successful pros before becoming "monks"... and like anyplace else in China, modern wushu is taught at all the schools including the temple. Now along side the modern wushu there is a modern general reconstructed Shaolin knowledge base. Between the monks who "returned" to the temple, the local layman masters from the surrounding area, and people who brought their personal Shaolin wushu to the temple from other areas of the country. So you have a number of different Shaolin lineages among the monks. Some older than others, or more authentic, as some of the older forms have been changed in some schools (like taking out sections of forms for performance reason... eliminating repition), and some add modern wushu forms and call them Shaolin (like many of the "Shaolin" animal forms you might see). And some might teach the older forms but don't do anything with them... instead just teaching some diluted form of sanda for application or no application at all. In other words lots of variety in both content and quality. And that's not even getting into the debate on the authenticity of any communist government run religious organization

[mkriii]

Folks,

I don't mean to start a huge war. I am just asking a simple question. After researching the current Shaolin Temple and all of its off-shoots, I wonder, what is the difference between what they do and the modern sport of Wushu?

What is the standard curriculum of both arts?

Also, how Buddhist are the Monks?

This is not to question anyone's "authenticity". I'm just trying to understand the standard routines and how they are similar and different.

The stuff that me and you would learn at the Shaolin temple would be modern wu shu with all the high jumps and butterfly kicks etc...... They keep the real Shaolin kung fu from the average person. It would be rare to learn real genuine Shaolin Kung Fu if you went there to train. Does everyone agree with that statement?

[LFJ]

The monks can eat meat and do some other stuff most Buddhist monks aren't allowed to.

to be fair, that applies only to the warrior monks who take only five lay precepts and observe ten while on the temple grounds.

there are fully ordained monks at shaolin. all fully ordained monks and nuns of any temple in any chinese buddhist tradition must take the full pratimoksha precepts as well as the bodhisattva precepts to receive full ordination.

the precept against eating meat is found in the bodhisattva precepts, which all fully ordained chinese monks and nuns must take. the precept of celibacy is found within the pratimoksha precepts.

again, warrior monks only take five lay precepts. this is why those precepts do not apply to them. their level of precept is secular. and only shaolin has or acknowledges such a class of monastics.

The stuff that me and you would learn at the Shaolin temple would be modern wu shu with all the high jumps and butterfly kicks etc...... They keep the real Shaolin kung fu from the average person. It would be rare to learn real genuine Shaolin Kung Fu if you went there to train. Does everyone agree with that statement?

no. i disagree. it depends entirely on who you study with and what sort of relationship you have with them.

[GeneChing]

...but typically, tourists will learn xiaohongquan or tongbeiquan as their first form in almost all of the schools around Shaolin (and there are only about 60 as of last year, not a billion and a half ) Most short termers stay for less than a week, so xiaohong and tongbei are short enough to transmit in that time.

Most people who want to learn modern wushu will go somewhere else, like Beijing. You can certainly learn modern wushu at Shaolin, but that's not its forte.

[mkriii]

[[LIST=1][*]QUOTE=LFJ;874441]
no. i disagree. it depends entirely on who you study with and what sort of relationship you have with them.[/QUOTE]


Well, I meant that if you didn't know anyone (just a average person) and you just went there to train you would learn modern wu shu.

[mkriii]

...but typically, tourists will learn xiaohongquan or tongbeiquan as their first form in almost all of the schools around Shaolin (and there are only about 60 as of last year, not a billion and a half ) Most short termers stay for less than a week, so xiaohong and tongbei are short enough to transmit in that time.

Most people who want to learn modern wushu will go somewhere else, like Beijing. You can certainly learn modern wushu at Shaolin, but that's not its forte.

I would say to learn modern wu shu the best place is with the Bejing Wu Shu Team. Would you agree with that Gene?

Also, got a question....Did Gung Li Chuan come from the Shaolin Temple, Do you know?

[Judge Pen]

I would say to learn modern wu shu the best place is with the Bejing Wu Shu Team. Would you agree with that Gene?

Also, got a question....Did Gung Li Chuan come from the Shaolin Temple, Do you know?

Like Dufresne. Didn't he study with them?

[mkriii]

Yes, Dufresne did study with them back in 1991 or 92, I can't quite remember. The Bejing Wu Shu Team do contemporary Wu Shu but they also fight as well. Some students of John's opted for the fight training rather than the forms training. I had heard the fight training sessions were very hard.

[SimonM]

(and there are only about 60 as of last year, not a billion and a half )

LOL! It just seems that way because Dengfeng is NOT a big place.