The Boxing Bridge In CMA

[UmFu]

It seems to me that in order for Chinese martial artists to be competitive in kicking boxing events, it will be necessary to develop good BOXING. Looking at SOME of the full contact sporting events around the country, it’s obvious that fundamental boxing skills are necessary in these sporting events. Too often we see “bad kickboxing” by CMA fighters who are poorly trained in boxing and/or have no real boxing training. This is the bridge that CMA will have to make in order to COMPETE in SPORTING or full contact events. My opinion in regards to the sporting events is that fundamental boxing skills will create a bridge for more stylistic/CMA techniques and concepts to be applied.

Coming from a boxing background into CMA (Jow Ga) I don’t see a difference in fighters based on style, I only see the difference between training methods and individuals. Not to promote my school, but the best example I have is that the most of the gung fu application taught in our school not only apply to the principles of boxing I learned, but they also expand what I can from a boxers stand point. With my boxing foundation, the CMA style that i train now has expanded my view on fighting

Obviously wrestling and grappling skills will come into play depending on the event, but that’s another thread. I’m new to CMA and this forum so your thoughts on the “Boxing Bridge Theory In CMA” would be appreciated.

Thanks
UmFu

[yaoli]

I think this is good point. too often the student has only little knowledge on how to use his style & then no experience in boxing strategy for competition which is no good. I think if you have good boxing technique it will make opportunity for more advance martial techniques like in CMA & other styles

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Why not just learn to use your Kung Fu to exploit the weaknesses of Boxing, and beat them that way? Then you don't have to learn two opposing methods.

[UmFu]

Why not just learn to use your Kung Fu to exploit the weaknesses of Boxing, and beat them that way? Then you don't have to learn two opposing methods.

Thanks RD
that's one of my points, I don't think they're so opposite. of course this may have something to do with my style of CMA. in jow ga we use straight, hooking , uppercut, power back hand techniques, overhands etc. actually my CMA experience has opened my eyes to other ways I can impliment these techniques along with other techniques distinct to CMA. to me some of the basics in boxing such as timing, continuous attack, angles, power, bridging (offensively & defensively)..... are similar& just stylistically different.
before my current CMA school I tried other schools & in just one month I was able to beat many of the so called advanced kung fu students with only my amateur boxing experience. NOW in a sparring situation when faced with an opponent who can box, but also use distinct CMA techniques that i'm not familiar with, I realized the limitations of my boxing against martial artist in general.

[Ray Pina]

I'm going to NY in a few weeks. When I get back to Puerto Rico I'm joining a local boxing gym. At the least I'll be mixing it up with the fists to compliment my BJJ. At the best I hope to pick up some extra footwork, body movement in the pocket and a lead left jab/power right to add an extra look to my now power right lead.

Why not? Might as well take advantage of a local past time.

[UmFu]

in comparison between boxing and CMA techniques, i learned how to throw an overhand technique from CMA training after boxing for 11 years. in jow ga we use a technique called kum choy. kum choy in our style is a mix between a so choy and hook punch. in this scenario CMA improved my boxing overhand technique by teaching a more efficient way to generate my power along with a root stance to support the power of the kum choy.

not to get side tracked, so i want to go back to my initial thought regarding sport fighting and the use of boxing to bridge CMA techniques and help CMA adapt to sporting full contact events.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I really don't think you need to use boxing to help CMA function in sporting arenas. CMA is not deficient. To say that Boxing can, or should be used for such a task is to sugjest that it is in some way.

Just get good at your CMA, and apply it to the situations commonly found in the ring and you will prevail.

[UmFu]

I really don't think you need to use boxing to help CMA function in sporting arenas. CMA is not deficient. To say that Boxing can, or should be used for such a task is to sugjest that it is in some way.

Just get good at your CMA, and apply it to the situations commonly found in the ring and you will prevail.

Many of the movements you see in most combative arts (CMA, boxing, etc) have basic and fundamental similarities. Even within the various CMA styles you'll find many fundamental similarities. From what i've seen in CMA, some of the main differences are stylistic and emphasis on certain techniques and concepts.

I’m actually suggesting that beyond the basics and fundamentals, CMA can be MORE efficient depending on the individual and his training in CMA. I am also suggesting that if any martial artists decides to step into a "kickboxing" ring, it might be a good idea to know how to "kick" and "box"

Real CMA fighting involves adapting. The CMA's decades ago naturally adapted to the fighters in their environment during that time and so should CMA today.

I think one problem is that some CMA look at boxing as something so different and don't realize that in some instances they're fundamentally related on a basic a level. youtube clip after youtube clip, i see so many fights where people who claim to be CMA are fighting with what I call sloppy kickboxing. these guys are getting beat down by fundamental boxing principles, which apply to many CMA too. With all of CMA techniques adaptable to size and circumstance, CMA should prove better than that.

CMA does have alot of very good techniques and principles, which far exceed boxing. The problem i see in regards to SOME CMA people fighting in "kickboxing" or "full contact" events is that they don't know how to bridge all of their wonderful techniques and concepts in the ring. if people stop separating boxing, which is fundamentally gung fu, CMA fighters may not only do better in the ring, but will have an opportunity to excel as they incorporate CMA techniques beyond the fundamental or basic level.

lets face it, there are CMA teachers that know the form, but don't know how to incorporate the applications in the ring. the rules, equipment, timing, and situation in kickboxing bouts can inhibit some CMA techniques. not making an excuse for some CMA techniques, only pointing out that the ring environment may be more conducive for more basic & fundamental techniques. Obviously on the streets where you have no rules, no equipment, no time limit, no point system, more unique CMA techniques can prevail.

keep in mind that my opinion relates to CMA in the ring or kickboxing environment.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have always said that the best way to beat a boxer ( or judoka, or bJJ palyer) is to get good at Boxing ( or judo or BJJ....).
You can TRY to beat them by getting "better" in your chosen system, but that is only part of the equation, you have to KNOW their system to beat it, it certainly makes things easier and you'll probably pick up a few good things on the way too.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

HOW TO BEAT A BOXER (by RD)

Cover your head real well, charge in and get really close by weathering a hit or two as you suddenly enter into grapling range. Grab his head and twist it hard to one direction or the other. Hold on tight, and retreat as fast as you can dragging him down by his noggin as you do.

Jump up and down on him like a rabid Monkey.

[sanjuro_ronin]

HOW TO BEAT A BOXER (by RD)

Cover your head real well, charge in and get really close by weathering a hit or two as you suddenly enter into grapling range. Grab his head and twist it hard to one direction or the other. Hold on tight, and retreat as fast as you can dragging him down by his noggin as you do.

Jump up and down on him like a rabid Monkey.

You forgot the part where your liver is smacked up into your throat area.

[Lucas]

The thing with boxing, and todays martial artist, is that fewer and fewer people are 'boxing purists' more and more people are cross training. and rightfully so.

a lot of boxers now have some form of tma background as well, MT, Judo, BJJ, JMA, CMA, KMA.

sure go to a boxing gym and you will find pure boxers, or a boxing event.

but let me ask you this.

how many TMA people enter pure boxing competitions? probably none. unless they are also western boxers.

where would a TMA meet a person with boxing background in a competative event?

MMA, SanShou, and the like.

where likely the boxer will have more in their game than just boxing.

boxing vs tma is a pretty rare event now days.

[UmFu]

Of course there are CMA’s who are very good at applying the more unique and characteristic techniques or concepts of CMA in the ring.

RD: LOL!

Lucas wrote:

where would a TMA meet a person with boxing background in a competative event? MMA, SanShou, and the like.

very good point. If a TMA/CMA intends to compete in one of these type events, he/she should obviously know how to use his TMA/CMA as it relates to this specific setting. my point isn't that TMA/CMA people should be limited to fighting the boxers fight. My point is that boxing is a common and significant element in these full contact sporting events so if CMA can bridge their CMA techniques with this element, CMA may be able to capitalize on it. Another point would be that if you're going to box in a kickboxing match, at least start with knowing how to box.

btw, my comments do not apply to all CMA schools and only to the ones i have personally seen.

[Lucas]

another aspect of cma vs boxing is that where as a boxer is only going to box. a cma practitioner is generally trained to be ready for legs/throws as well.

if a cma person is going up against a boxer, and they do not re evaluate the situation to the point that they tighten up their guard and are ready for everything the boxer will throw, they can be at a disadvantage.

for instance, a boxer will not be prepared for the legs, and throws a cma person is going to throw, but on the flip side, if a cma person fights under the same guidlines they would in a match using legs/fists and throws, the boxer will likely get inside the guard rather easily

your standard cma ready guard is pretty open to 100% pure boxing. the reason being of course the aspect of expecting kicks and throws, and not being trained to fend an aggressive western boxers will limit the cma persons compatability, unless otherwise trained to deal with a boxer.

[Lucas]

at the first cma school i studied at i would have a lot of fun in sparring switching from the style there to western boxing. using my legs and footwork to fend off kicks.

some people would get a bit upset, but i didnt really care. imo it was good for them to realize the majority of people they run into arent going to fight they way they expect them to.

also, your average american is going to adopt something akin to boxing in a street fight anyhow.