The Boxing Bridge In CMA

[sanjuro_ronin]

So then why is footwork so different? Shaolin footwork is nothing like modern sport fight footwork. I understand how fencing influenced the "dominate side" stance in CMA. And some of the static stances are similar, but just the idea of staying on the balls of your feet, for example, is completly incorrect within the framework of Shaolin stepping.

Foot work isn't just about power generation and evasion, its about footing also, and the footing in modern day boxing is not an issue compared to the "streets" of China 300 years ago.

[Lucas]

So then why is footwork so different? Shaolin footwork is nothing like modern sport fight footwork. I understand how fencing influenced the "dominate side" stance in CMA. And some of the static stances are similar, but just the idea of staying on the balls of your feet, for example, is completly incorrect within the framework of Shaolin stepping.

I think that has a lot to do with the fact in shaolin traditional training, you are going to be aware of your footwork in regards to throws, as well as kicks, and the nesessity to be versitile and ready to respond/act quickly to those aspects.

where as in boxing your going to want to stay light and fast for your punches and tactful footwork for defense as well as setting up those attacks.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Ross,
on the whole Kua thing, that type of power generation is used in specific conditions not really found in the Kick Boxer, or Boxers arena.

Also, it's not that these disciplines shaper various striking techniques, it is the way they are used and set up that changes things. The range and positioning plays a factor as well.

Fighters who start mixing disciplines end up not fighting like either (as we have seen in MMA). Something new, and personal rises from the marriage.

[lkfmdc]

So then why is footwork so different? Shaolin footwork is nothing like modern sport fight footwork. I understand how fencing influenced the "dominate side" stance in CMA. And some of the static stances are similar, but just the idea of staying on the balls of your feet, for example, is completly incorrect within the framework of Shaolin stepping.

Not all boxing is the same.... certainly not all fighting is the same.... I can tell you that when we "box" in our fights, some of it looks "weird" from a Western boxing stand point but if you realize our background is Lama Pai it makes perfect sense

Did you watch Fedor's last fight? Hard shots thrown, but not standard boxing by any stretch

Finally, old boxers (we are talking less than a 100 years now) were FLAT FOOTED. Footwork evolved....

Heck, the CMA we see today is not the old "box" footwork of the southern styles pre-Wong Yan Lam and Wong Fei Hung.... the footwork you see in CMA today is considered "updated" from the really imobile footwork they used to have!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Reply]
So once again, the lama pai family is/are the only ones that MISSED the joke.....

But even more astounding is everyone ELSE got it, and replied appropriately. Even though you undoubtedly read those replies, and shuld have been clued in to the humor EVERYONE ELSE GOT, instead you come back with a huge long post trying to argue with me as if I had even the slightest sense of seriousness when I wrote that.

Nice job there sport.

I guess it a case of the 'little boy who cried wolf'...

Your posts in general, are usually quite ridiculous, even when your have a synaptic fart and happen to actually stay ON topic...

I feel, from reading your posts, that you have an unrealistic sense of CMA. Period. No...not the posts about getting girls, losing girls, giving up girls, flying cars, aliens, secret motors or the cult you used to belong to.

I think you are a circus and a juggle....

I wish you still had those pics of you posted online....what happened to your site?


Oh, and I love when people feel the need to group people together in way to validate their opinions....

Besides, I really can't take a guy seriously, who has to write the word "reply" all the time, because he can't master a simple skill like, THE QUOTE FUNCTION! Or, you try to be soo cool that you just don't want to use it 'cause everyone gets on you about it. Tsk, tsk.

[lkfmdc]

I have Rd on "ignore" so I always miss the joke, ie the joke that is his advice

[UmFu]

Lama Pai Sifu, you made some really good points regarding CMA & Boxing, and pretty much summed up my point better than I could. Btw thanks for the story about your Sifu Chan Tai San.

Lkfmdc wrote:

so is just a long hook, you see it all the time
cup/kahp is an overhand, you see it all the time

another good illustration of my point regarding similar fundamentals between CMA and boxing.

Sanjuro wrote:

Also, the 4 punches of boxing ( and their "off-shots") are also the basic punches of every other MA.

That’s what I’m talking about.


when i mentioned the "bridge" between boxing and CMA, i was seeking opinions on how good boxing skills added to a CMA fighter's arsenal IN THE RING could maybe open doors to other CMA techniques once in the pocket or during the bridge in CMA terms.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

slips, ducks, bob n weave are all evasive head and body movements-which are also used in grappling to duck under and reverse many standing locks and chokes.

Reply]
Yes, BUT in that arena, they have counters built in that take advantage of the enviroment. A Boxer will Bob, and Weave under the premiss that he is dealing with striking, not looking to setup and use it as a launch for a double leg.

The Boxer, who does not do double legs may bob, is focused on the opponents striking and how to turn the tables to land strikes of his own. In the process he leaves himself wide open for a take down....because one is just not a threat in his relm.

A grappler is using the SAME move, but he's looking to initiate a takedown from it, so he does it in a way that has him in a superior position for that.

Yes, they are using the same tool, but in totally different ways, and with totally different intended outcomes, and THAT changes things drastically.

You can set a Boxer up by evading his strike, and then shooting in for the take down because he is expecting the you to do something totally different with the familiar movements.

This gives the take down artist an advantage over the boxer because he is using the Boxers very own tools to exploit an area a Boxer does not even train for.

[sanjuro_ronin]

when i mentioned the "bridge" between boxing and CMA, i was seeking opinions on how good boxing skills added to a CMA fighter's arsenal IN THE RING could maybe open doors to other CMA techniques once in the pocket or during the bridge in CMA terms.

Yes, some of us know that you were talking about the ring...LOL
If there is one thing that CMA can also learn from western boxing is not to "chase" hands, as I see too many do.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

You are not supposed to Chase hands in CMA in the first place.

[TenTigers]

RD-all that makes sense, in the ring. Meaning, sure, a boxer won't expect your single leg takedown. Most chess players don't expect the right hook when they put me in check.
The problem is, in the street, you don't know that the guy facing you in a boxer's guard is not also the inter-collegiete greco-roman wrestling champ, etc
It is not that cut and dry-unless you are in the ring-and not doing MMA.

[Lucas]

/OT

Although it is universal across the board to chase tail.

/OT

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

RD-all that makes sense, in the ring. Meaning, sure, a boxer won't expect your single leg takedown. Most chess players don't expect the right hook when they put me in check.
The problem is, in the street, you don't know that the guy facing you in a boxer's guard is not also the inter-collegiete greco-roman wrestling champ, etc
It is not that cut and dry-unless you are in the ring-and not doing MMA.

Reply]
That is the point of CMA, and it's wide technical diversity and multi range strategies (Punch, Kick, Lock Throw)

[SimonM]

Oh, and speaking of the MMA crowd, when they "Box" they are not doing actual Boxing anyway. they need to "ADAPT" it because f both the threat, and desire to be taken down, dealing with kicks and other variables not in a Boxers relm.

In addition, a Greco/Roman Wrestler has never had any fear of a Boxer, so maybe it would be better to learn that instead.

Out of curiosity... have I been religated to the "mma crowd" now? After all, I support resistive drilling, cross training and tend to see my chosen core martial art (CMA) to be not that different, when push comes to shove, than many other martial arts.

Then again I don't really like Rorion Gracie because I take umbrage with some of what he says in IKF.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I don't know, where do you see yourself?

If what you describe is accurate, I would place you in the Old School TCMA camp more than Modern MMA.

Although, cross training really shouldn't be necessary outside of the whole learning your enemy aspect. It depends on what you mean by cross training, and what you consider it to be.

if you are doing lots of BJJ, Muy Thai or other popular MMA styles and feel you can't answer your fighting needs with your CMA, then you would probably be a Modern MMA in my book.