Kids and MMA

[Dragonzbane76]

Better check your reference before you state things like this.

[Frost]

Full detail can be find on today’s metro newspaper or metro.co.uk


Five years old kids do not the time to develop their martial skills and yet they are allow to fight in a cage. If two 5 years old kids fought inside a martial arts school and seriously got hurt. The martial arts school will be in big trouble and everyone will make a big fuss about it. Some parents will sue that martial arts school. Several fighters did get kill in the early stages of UFC years ago and now they want children to fight and get hurt.

One man did reported his wife and her family to the police in UK several years ago after finding video clips showing his wife and her family encouraging his five years son to beat up his three years daughter. The beating lasted for several minutes.
For some strange reasons it is ok for 5 years old kids to fight in a cage and entertain the blood lust audience in UK. Has the world gone mad!

grow up this was totally fabricated, several coaches i know are on the radio and tv at the moment pointing out the holes in this rubbish, they were grappling not doing MMA, their ages were wrong and its no different than kids doing judo.....

[Dragonzbane76]

Or wrestling which is very common here.

[Lokhopkuen]

I love an embellished story it's so PRC

[Indrafist]

grow up this was totally fabricated, several coaches i know are on the radio and tv at the moment pointing out the holes in this rubbish, they were grappling not doing MMA, their ages were wrong and its no different than kids doing judo.....

Time will tell on that (re it being 'no different than kids doing Judo'). I sincrely hope you'll be proved right. Some Judo coaches won't let very young juniors do stuff like crossover arm bars on safety grounds, and Judo isn't a feed into a full blown combat sport with strikes, KO's etc. There is the (psychological) conditioning effect of the environment (an MMA 'cage') and the long-term effects of that on kids won't show up for a while. There's a five year old lad who lives near me who beats other kids up on a ten foot, netted trampoline, copying stuff he sees with his dad on TV. That's something different in itself, obviously, but similar enough to illustrate what could happen. He goes out of his way to hurt kids, with his versions of single and double leg takedows, guilotines, crossover arm bars, mounts, passing the guard etc. No reason all all to ban controlled grappling for kids, but social and cultural shifts always have unforseen consequences. It needs some measured consideration, and part of that will include kids welfare.

[Frost]

Time will tell on that (re it being 'no different than kids doing Judo'). I sincrely hope you'll be proved right. Some Judo coaches won't let very young juniors do stuff like crossover arm bars on safety grounds, and Judo isn't a feed into a full blown combat sport with strikes, KO's etc. There is the (psychological) conditioning effect of the environment (an MMA 'cage') and the long-term effects of that on kids won't show up for a while. There's a five year old lad who lives near me who beats other kids up on a ten foot, netted trampoline, copying stuff he sees with his dad on TV. That's something different in itself, obviously, but similar enough to illustrate what could happen. He goes out of his way to hurt kids, with his versions of single and double leg takedows, guilotines, crossover arm bars, mounts, passing the guard etc. No reason all all to ban controlled grappling for kids, but social and cultural shifts always have unforseen consequences. It needs some measured consideration, and part of that will include kids welfare.

most grappling coaches i know dont even teach under 16s, im sure those that do will take as much care and attention as they do with their other students as for judo not being a feeding ground into combat sports, maybe not but most kids i know who started in judo moved on to karate, boxing kick boxing, same with those who played rugby as kids

[Ben Gash]

Last time I looked, Judo was a full contact combat sport

[Indrafist]

most grappling coaches i know dont even teach under 16s, im sure those that do will take as much care and attention as they do with their other students as for judo not being a feeding ground into combat sports, maybe not but most kids i know who started in judo moved on to karate, boxing kick boxing, same with those who played rugby as kids

My son started with Judo at 8 and then in his teens went onto Muay Thai. Good coaches, which is what a responsible parent wants. My concern in the case (mis)quoted at the beginning of this thread (and as it was reported on tv news) is the effect that the popularity of full-on combat sports will eventually have on 'some' kids - not to mention their parents. The 5 yr old I mentioned has got real issues, that in themselves. have nothing to do with MMA or cage-fighting, but, as with anything else potentially dangerous, its becoming a lens for him to express what may become violent psychopathy. A reasoned debate is worth having, as properly regulated MMA needs to be protected against unwarranted legislation and an exaggerated image. But, kids need protecting too from exploitaive adults, and from dangerous practices that could either harm them physically or affect their psycho-social development. I think it's a debate worth having, if only because martial artists, mixed or otherwise, aren't all the same. People (especially adults) bring who they are to the table, and that colours what they do probably even more than the 'art'/sport changes them. The conditioning effect on kids is another matter altogether, and that's where adults have to be responsible, and more than that, prove that they are. That proof will involve them being challenged on their safety, their beliefs and their character.

[Frost]

My son started with Judo at 8 and then in his teens went onto Muay Thai. Good coaches, which is what a responsible parent wants. My concern in the case (mis)quoted at the beginning of this thread (and as it was reported on tv news) is the effect that the popularity of full-on combat sports will eventually have on 'some' kids - not to mention their parents. The 5 yr old I mentioned has got real issues, that in themselves. have nothing to do with MMA or cage-fighting, but, as with anything else potentially dangerous, its becoming a lens for him to express what may become violent psychopathy. A reasoned debate is worth having, as properly regulated MMA needs to be protected against unwarranted legislation and an exaggerated image. But, kids need protecting too from exploitaive adults, and from dangerous practices that could either harm them physically or affect their psycho-social development. I think it's a debate worth having, if only because martial artists, mixed or otherwise, aren't all the same. People (especially adults) bring who they are to the table, and that colours what they do probably even more than the 'art'/sport changes them. The conditioning effect on kids is another matter altogether, and that's where adults have to be responsible, and more than that, prove that they are. That proof will involve them being challenged on their safety, their beliefs and their character.

how is this any different from kids jumping off chairs to emulate the crane kick in the karate kid? or kicking each other whilst screaming like bruce lee, or for that matter hitting each other with their favourite WWE move they saw john cena doing on TV?

I would argue that grappling (be it judo, submission grappling, free style) is a much better way to express their energy than the above (or football for that matter) because through regulated competition they will learn the most valuable lesson we can all learn, humility through being beaten

[hskwarrior]

Here's the video for this.....you make the judgement call. I didn't see any strikes so i can't personally say thats child abuse.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a3c_1316692438

[Iron_Eagle_76]

To the poster whining about the five year old beating up other kids, here's one for you. Why don't the parents, you know, parent him!!

Why do we as human beings now feel the need to blame other sources for our own shortcomings. The five year old you speak of may have some type of medical disorder (ADD, Bi-Polar) but it also sounds like his dad is an ass***hole that does not teach the child right from wrong.

Nothing but more pure liberal garbage of blaming another source when the problem is right under the nose.

[Indrafist]

how is this any different from kids jumping off chairs to emulate the crane kick in the karate kid? or kicking each other whilst screaming like bruce lee, or for that matter hitting each other with their favourite WWE move they saw john cena doing on TV?

I would argue that grappling (be it judo, submission grappling, free style) is a much better way to express their energy than the above (or football for that matter) because through regulated competition they will learn the most valuable lesson we can all learn, humility through being beaten

And I would agree, hence my son both did, and enjoyed Judo, and had my full support, just as he did for his Muay Thai.

As for your first paragraph, MMA even in a proto-form, isn't the Karate Kid, or WWE, and kids, especially those directed to it by adults, who'll have their own agenda, will know this. There's a huge gradient and that's the specifics of the situation (which make it different) and which will take time yet to reveal themselves. This is why over-cautious lawmakers do what they do, preventitively: and why personal injury lawyers feed off the mess.

Martials arts types will look at this through their own lens, but so will everyone else, and that means that whatever appeal to reason is made, it'll have to pass a varied set of judgements. Let's hope they're rational.

[Indrafist]

To the poster whining about the five year old beating up other kids, here's one for you. Why don't the parents, you know, parent him!!

Why do we as human beings now feel the need to blame other sources for our own shortcomings. The five year old you speak of may have some type of medical disorder (ADD, Bi-Polar) but it also sounds like his dad is an ass***hole that does not teach the child right from wrong.

Nothing but more pure liberal garbage of blaming another source when the problem is right under the nose.

Yeah, why don't they? And where was the 'whining'? It was simply an observation, and one in context of a broader debate.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Personally I disagree with putting kids into a full contact striking venue before they are 13.
Sparring is different and some kids like to fight even at an early age, but ALWAYS with protective gear.
Grappling oriented MA tend to be ideal for kids because they learn how to fight and how to win or lose without the very "primal" instinct of BEATING on someone.

Let me explain if I may:
In grappling kids wrestle ( with out without a jacket) and they struggle with each other and they learn how to use skill to overcame strength and how important skill AND strength are. They throw each other and they wrestle and that is the samething they do when they are also playfighting so there isn't a true notion of violence at this point.
BUT, add the element of striking and it becomes something different.
Two kids wrestling gives us one image.
Two kids punching and kicking themselves gives us another.
The kids see this difference too.

[Indrafist]

Personally I disagree with putting kids into a full contact striking venue before they are 13.
Sparring is different and some kids like to fight even at an early age, but ALWAYS with protective gear.
Grappling oriented MA tend to be ideal for kids because they learn how to fight and how to win or lose without the very "primal" instinct of BEATING on someone.

Let me explain if I may:
In grappling kids wrestle ( with out without a jacket) and they struggle with each other and they learn how to use skill to overcame strength and how important skill AND strength are. They throw each other and they wrestle and that is the samething they do when they are also playfighting so there isn't a true notion of violence at this point.
BUT, add the element of striking and it becomes something different.
Two kids wrestling gives us one image.
Two kids punching and kicking themselves gives us another.
The kids see this difference too.

Totally agree.