Kids and MMA

[jackmcmanus21]

I don't have a problem with it as long as there are good refs and coaches involved. Kids are going to get hit in the head a few times in their life....its not a bad thing for them to toughen up a bit.

[GeneChing]

...deserves legislation to ban.

Lawmakers' proposal takes aim at mixed martial arts
By Derek Spellman
dspellman@joplinglobe.com

Two local lawmakers have proposed legislation that would ban mixed martial arts competitions for people younger than 18 in the wake of reports that youngsters have taken up the sport.

But a local man who teaches mixed martial arts to youngsters in Carthage said the proposal stems from a lack of understanding of the sport and the reasons why it has utilized a cage in competitions.

Rep. Bryan Stevenson, R-Webb City, one of the measure’s co-sponsors, acknowledged that the bill “may be a bit broad” as currently written, but he defended it as an initial step in bringing oversight to a largely unregulated sport that he said poses risks of injury to children.

Missouri appears to be the only state in the nation that explicitly allows the youth fights. A few states have no regulations, and most other states have deemed it a crime for children to participate.

Stevenson said he has seen video clips of youth fights, some of whose members are part of the Garage Boys Fight Crew based in Carthage. The group has 11 boys and one girl ranging from 6 to 14 years old. Critics of the sport have contended that mixed martial arts employs arm- and leg-twisting maneuvers that put pressure on joints in a way not found in sanctioned sports like youth boxing or wrestling.

“I’m very concerned,” Stevenson said of what he saw on the clips. “I’m very concerned that some of the activities border on child endangerment.”

Members of the Garage Boys Fight Crew are trained by Rudy Lindsey, a youth wrestling coach and a professional mixed martial arts heavyweight.

Lindsey and his school were the subject of an Associated Press article published late last month. Stevenson said he had begun investigating regulations on operations like Lindsey’s several weeks before the article broke, and he received numerous calls from constituents decrying the program after the article’s publication.

“We ban dogfighting and rooster fighting, but we are sticking kids in a cage,” Stevenson said. “Something is wrong with that.”

But Lindsey said neither the bill’s proponents nor critics have taken time to understand mixed martial arts and what it teaches young people.

“It’s not about beating each other up or about winning and losing,” he said.

Lindsey defended the sport as one that takes place in a safe, controlled environment featuring adult supervision, protective gear, and strict rules for behavior both inside and outside the class. Lindsey argued that the class instills discipline, self-restraint and self-esteem. One student, for example, let his grades slip and was not allowed to train until he revived them, he said.

Lindsey said his young students have participated in more than a half-dozen competitions without any injuries.

[yenhoi]

Sean Hannity took a swing at MMA and specifically MMA for kids on Sunday.

http://www.foxnews.com/hannitysamerica/

Couldent find a more specific link.

[GeneChing]

I'm finding this to be a really fascinating story now.

Parent reacts to proposed fighting ban
By John Hacker
Carthage Press
Mon Apr 07, 2008, 11:41 AM CDT
CARTHAGE, Mo. -

Two local lawmakers have proposed banning mixed martial arts fighting, but a Carthage parent says those lawmakers are overreacting.

State Reps. Steve Hunter, representing Carthage and northwest Jasper County, and Bryan Stephenson, representing Webb City and Joplin, introduced House Bill 2518 on March 31. The bill would change the rules regarding boxing and wrestling to ban mixed martial arts fighting, sometimes known as “cage fighting” by children under 18 years old.

Carthage parent Larry Swinehart, has two boys and a girl who participate in the Garage Boys Fight Crew, a mixed martial arts cage-fighting club that meets just east of Carthage.

A recent news article by the Associated Press gained national and even international attention for the Garage Boys Fight Crew, but it also brought controversy when doctors said some of the moves used in cage fighting are dangerous to young people. Swinehart said the AP article portrayed their group inaccurately.

“You guys came and did an article on us, the Joplin Globe came and did an article about us, no one had a problem until the reporter came from the Associated Press and submitted an article to the ‘Washington Post’ and put a very, very liberal skew on it and actually lied throughout the biggest part of it,” Swinehart said. “We were portrayed as monsters and participating in barbaric acts. That was my biggest problem, if they had simply told the story as it truly existed, it would have been no news, it would have ended with the articles in the Press and the Globe.”

Hunter introduced the bill with Stephenson as a co-sponsor.

Stephenson said he would like to hear from the Swineharts and others involved in the local group, he’s concerned about children being placed in unsafe situations. He said doctors have told him that some of the holds in mixed martial arts fighting can cause permanent damage to young joints.

“I’d be happy to meet with them,” Stephenson said. “I want to learn how they’re conducting the sport, I want to make sure that the division of children’s services is convinced that this is not child abuse and I want to make sure that there are proper regulations and safety precautions. I want to make sure that the holds and the moves that the young people are using are not long-term damaging. I’m reviewing news articles from all over the country about this issue. This is an issue in 22 jurisdictions across the country and I’m reading some very disturbing reports about things that are going on. For example, we have a report of an event that happened in Omaha, Neb. where a young man was kicked in the face and passed out standing up, and the referee did not stop the fight. I’ve read of another instance where a young man was on the mat and was pummeled to the point where his face was bloody and he was still staggering and unable to walk properly several minutes after the fight.”

Hunter said he shares Stephenson’s concerns.

“You watch this cage fighting on television, and that to me has gone way over the edge,” Hunter said. “If we’ve got some over-exuberent parents putting their kids in that kind of situation, and there are some, you could really cause some problems for some one who sticks their kid in there who is not as exuberant.

“I am not a person who just jumps into something to try to get the state power. I think the state and federal governments have enough power anyway.”

Swinehart said the children wear the same protective head-, hand- and groin- protection as boxers and referees watch every match.

“What they’re seeing is the adult cage fighting from the early 80s where it was true bare knuckles and they’re punching people in the head when they’re down, which is forbidden in martial arts and they’re using elbows, which is forbidden,” Swinehart said. “They don’t today wear head protection in the adult league, but it’s required for youth. The children wear the same headgear they use in boxing.”

Swinehart said he fears driving the sport underground where there would be no safety regulation.

“There needs to be a governing board to oversee it,” Swinehart said. “There needs to be a commission, otherwise what will happen, and my biggest fear is, and my kids won’t participate because I’ve sworn to uphold the law, but my biggest fear is that lesser people will do what was done years ago when fight were held in basements and farms out back and things of that nature. They won’t have the doctors’ physicals before the fights, there won’t be paramedics on scene, there won’t be professional referees there to over see it. It will simply be people who have no training in it and people will get hurt doing it. That’s my biggest fear.”

Both Stephenson and Hunter said they would be open to creating a sanctioning board for the sport as long as doctors say the sport itself is not dangerous.

“My intent is not to ban it,” Hunter said. “My intent is to make sure that it is properly sanctioned.”

Note: The Carthage School District and the Carthage Youth Wrestling Club are in no way connected with the Garage Boys Fight Crew and mixed martial arts. Larry Swinehart said some people have come to believe that the city or the school district are sponsoring the group, but that’s not true.

“The school district and the wrestling clubs have nothing to do with this group,” Swinehart said. “They have nothing to do with it, no practices have ever been held at the wrestling building.”

[GeneChing]

Looks like this is an issue across the pond too.

Child kick boxing slammed
By Staff reporter
Published: 20 Apr 2008

A VETERAN martial arts teacher has criticised a craze for children as young as five to fight each other in kick boxing clubs.

Mark Lutman, a martial arts teacher with 30 years experience, said some forms of the sport were not suitable for children.

He said: “Some martial arts lend themselves to children participating and some don’t.

“I started out aged seven or eight doing judo which has that rough and tumble appeal to kids and obviously is done on mats.

“The danger in children participating in martial arts is they don’t have the skills you need to have self-control.”

‘ They’re having a laugh. It’s fun ’

A Channel 4 documentary Strictly Baby Fight Club to be aired on Thursday shows children aged five and six fighting each other.

Lisa Flanagan, whose five-year-old daughter Miah features in the show, told the News of the World it could be upsetting to see her in the ring.

She said: “It’s about learning respect and discipline. It also keeps them fit. They’re having a laugh. It’s fun.”

Strictly Baby Fight Club will be shown on Channel 4 at 9pm on Thursday.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It goes back to the issue of what is available and allowed right now.
If children are allowed to box then why not kick box?
If they are allowed judo and wrestling, why not submission wrestling?
If they are allowed those things, why not MMA?

The crux of the problem is that special rules and age limits are needed and as usual, some over zelous fool seeing an opportunity to make a buck decided to go out and do it without thinking it through and voila, instant baby fight club.

How many people would have issues with MMA if it was NOT in a cage, the kids were all over 10 (for example), no GnP and no chokes or leg locks?
basically all they could do is kick, punch with gloves and head gear and chest gear perhaps, and they could throw and take down ( no slams) and they could pin and do limited locks?

I think that very few people woudl have issues with kids doing MMA if it was done correctly from the very beginning.

[LoneTiger108]

http://www.channel4.com/video/strict...dance_p_1.html

What are your views?

This has caused uproar in the UK media, as it was broadcast last night on Channel 4.

It just reminded me of some of the banter I've read in these forums, especially when we concern ourselves with fighting so much these days, and train more for competition than as a 'way of life'.

Would you put your five year old in the ring in Thailand??

[GeneChing]

I posted something on this on our little kids doing mma thread. Sounds pretty sensational.

Strictly Baby Fight Club (Cutting Edge, Channel 4) was about Thai boxing for children, an extreme martial art increasingly popular among parents.

Sohan's father, a fork-lift driver, put it most poignantly. His son is nine. "My dream is for Sohan to become the world champion. I always wanted people to look at me and say, 'There's the champ!' but it's as good as. I've never had the opportunity to become a superstar, but my son has. Sohan's living the life I should have lived. It's so real for me. When he's punching,
I'm punching. When he gets hurt, I'm hurt. The clouds are going to open and the gods will be looking down on a champ." Sohan lost.

Five-year-old Miah was sobbing as she was put in the boxing ring. "Aaah!" said the audience, charmed. Her father, Darren, trains her. Her mother, Lisa (or "nail technician, Lisa" as the commentary put it), makes up her face. "We've not to cry, have we?" she said, brushing on the blusher. "Otherwise what comes off? Your sparkle comes off." Miah wept sparkling tears. "Come on, princess, kick 'er!" yelled Darren, while Lisa filmed the fight. Miah lost, too.

The parents, shrieking from the sidelines, were fearless. I used to have a news editor like that. "Go back in there," he'd say, "and tell them they can't frighten me!"

Well done, Thai boxing looks like fleas fighting. The children's skinny limbs cartwheel as they whirl. Connor and Thai (destined for the sport from the font) were 10-year-old veterans with shelves full of trophy glitter. They fought in a cage for the Junior British Cage Thai Box Title. Connor wore a helmet; Thai didn't. There was some parental acrimony about who had kicked whom in the head. Connor's pencil-thin hips could hardly support the massive belt he won. His mother had signed a waiver not to sue if he died.

This was a powerful piece from Kirsty Cunningham. The proud parents did not see it coming up from the floor. Anyone can fail to see a kick coming. That's the point.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Parents living their failed dreams through their kids is beyond disgusting.

[TaichiMantis]

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/...ideoId=3497233

How young is too young? How much contact, when? What attitude toward physical violence is being formed? What do you think?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I say:
No contact training before 10 and no competition before 13 ( full contact).

[MasterKiller]

Personally, I don't think kids should train until they are 11 or 12, at least. But the argument he makes against MMA could also be used against wrestling, TKD, and boxing, which no one ever seems to have a problem with.

[sanjuro_ronin]

He's obviously never seen a lacroose or hockey game

[sanjuro_ronin]

You know, if MMA got a "decent" rep for the sport, we wouldn't have any of this crap at all.
Get some good looking, articulate guy that isn't covered with tattoos and looks like his face was put in a meat grinder or likes being portrayed as a thug and you would see a total change in public perception.

[MasterKiller]

You know, if MMA got a "decent" rep for the sport, we wouldn't have any of this crap at all.
Get some good looking, articulate guy that isn't covered with tattoos and looks like his face was put in a meat grinder or likes being portrayed as a thug and you would see a total change in public perception.

You would also alienate 70% of the market demographic buying pay-per-view events.