Kids and MMA

[GeneChing]

Cage fighting obsession reaches kids

Cage-fighting is all the rage, and like any popular sport, there are millions of kids who want to grow up to be like the stars they idolize. Now, doctors are wondering how young is too young to start training.

Robert Gonzalez's dad supports his nine-year-old son's dream and now he's helping him get there.

Every week, Nick Gonzalez trains kids six-years-old and older to grapple and kickbox at Jackson Gaidojutsu, one of the premier mixed martial arts schools in the country.

The gym is home to some of the best cage fighters in the world.

"We used to watch the UFC shows together and we always did it as a family thing and I figured if we could grow closer as a family and do something that we both love, we can go home and practice together, we can go home and practice together, that helps build a bond between me and my son," Gonzalez said.

Although cage fighting for anyone under the age of 18-years-old is against the law, what Gonzalez teaches both boys and girls is perfectly legal.

Cage fighting or mixed martial arts is basically a combination of two things, kickboxing and grappling.

Kids are not allowed to compete using both forms of fighting, but they can train for each individually.

The grappling class focuses on cage fighting fundamentals, chokes, armbars, leg-locks and other moves designed to make an opponent tap-out.

Some doctors have said that submission moves at such a young age can cause serious damage.

"As a physician, I have a concern when it comes to wrestling and grappling sort of sports, especially ones in which the children's joints are being pulled in different directions" said Dr. John Ogren of Presbyterian Urgent Care.

Parents at Jackson's say they are aware of the risks, but they support the sport and their kids, even if they want to grow up and get in the cage.

"I'd love him to be a doctor, but I'll support him in what he does," said Gonzalez said.

While many doctors discourage combat sports like grappling and kickboxing before puberty, most say they have seen more injuries from football and cheerleading.

Jackson's gym stands by its clean record and says no kid at the gym has been seriously injured.

TaichiMantis, I'm abbreviating this thread title from "ESPN's Outside the Lines Debates Kids and MMA" to "Kids and MMA" because I feel its evolved to something more expansive. I may merge it with the other kids MMA thread some day too, someday when I'm feeling particular anal about the archives.

[TaichiMantis]

TaichiMantis, I'm abbreviating this thread title from "ESPN's Outside the Lines Debates Kids and MMA" to "Kids and MMA" because I feel its evolved to something more expansive. I may merge it with the other kids MMA thread some day too, someday when I'm feeling particular anal about the archives.

Carry on sir!

[TenTigers]

"While many doctors discourage combat sports like grappling and kickboxing before puberty, most say they have seen more injuries from football and cheerleading."

probably because of the numbers. There are a lot more football players and cheerleaders than there are kids doing MMA. "Most say," is not an accurate
definable statistic.

[TenTigers]

I had a student who in his teens, was an excellent hockey player. So good in fact, that they put him in adult league. Well, he had so many concussions that he now has seizure disorder. I have seen him have full blown epileptic seizure.
Headgear does NOT prevent concussion and neurological damage. It prevents fractures and cuts, and in open tournaments, it is required because a person once died after being KO'd and fell and hit his head on the floor.
Just because a kid wears headgear, doesn't all of a sudden, make it a safe sport.
Not fer nuthin, but many of the people who claim otherwise usually have other manifestations of dain bramage as well. Or haven't you noticed?

oops-fixed it.

[GeneChing]

Gentle. Yeah right. I wouldn't even say that about good Chen Taiji...unless I was talking to the press.

Kids mixing it up
Viera High sop****re wrestler trains for MMA career
BY BRIAN McCALLUM • FLORIDA TODAY • November 28, 2008

Dex Hicks arrived at the gym later than the rest of his group. He had a weigh-in for his Viera High wrestling team on this afternoon, and training for mixed martial arts had to wait. Hicks, 15, is a sop****re 140-pounder in his first year of wrestling, but his martial arts training is already deep in his psyche.

Eventually he wants it deep in his pocketbook.

"I want to go pro, definitely want to go pro," Hicks said. "That's why I'm glad I started at such a young age. Legally, I have to be 18 to fight, but as soon as I turn 18 . . ."

Hicks trains at Spartan MMA under James Wynn, himself a mixed martial arts professional who is realizing his dream of teaching others. Wynn hopes and believes that, as the sport of MMA continues to grow, it will attract younger students.

Others in Brevard County have had professional bouts -- Danny Bab**** of Palm Bay recently won the middleweight championship of the Real Fighting Championships in Tampa -- but MMA's newness means its fighters have come from other beginnings. This young Viera student could be the first example of someone local entering the sport at a young age and growing into the pro ranks.

The rest of Hicks' training group, by the way, is his mom and, usually, his younger brother. Martial arts is a family affair.

Sabrina Hicks competed in jiu jitsu in Colorado years ago, and Dex took up that sport at age 10. Mom had been influenced by her own father's pursuit of karate, and she is now thrilled to see her own sons in the gym.

"I like it," she said. "It's better than sitting at home playing video games or being out on the streets."

Certified athletic trainer Kris Klein said he has no extra health or safety concerns for martial arts training, compared to any other sport, when there is professional supervision and proper equipment.

"I don't see any problem with that as long as it's not a backyard brawl," he said. "You're not going to keep wrestling types out of it. It's sport, and they're doing some kind of activity."

Dex's aggression is exorcised in the gym rather than at home with his brother. Sabrina doesn't see any problems and doesn't think MMA training encourages it.

"I can see how some parents can think they'll be aggressive, but I think it's more about discipline. It keeps them out of trouble."

In reality, most of Wynn's students, including two or three others of high school age, are training simply to develop self-defense skills. Spectators looking for strikes to the face and the bloody results would be disappointed with a typical session. Any sparring includes headgear, and most of what goes on resembles a standard martial arts classe in substance.

"Everything here is gentle," Dex said. "Nobody ever gets hurt unless it's a little bruise or something."

Holds are released with the slightest tap, and most of the activity is repetition, just as would be seen at any athletic practice.

"It's probably the safest way to learn self-defense, and it's the most practical way," Wynn said. "There's training in ground work, there's standing, as opposed to karate, and others where they just focus on one style of martial arts."

Wynn compared it to the training he experienced in the Marines.

"We just didn't call it MMA," he said.

MMA matches are a hot topic among Dex's teammates after headline bouts, but he can count on one hand the number of fellow students who know he trains in the sport. One coach contacted by FLORIDA TODAY was open to high school wrestlers with a martial arts sidelight.

"I'd encourage it, anything you can learn," coach Billy Bechtol of Eau Gallie wrestling said. "More martial arts helps."

Eau Gallie doesn't have any current wrestlers pursuing the sport, according to Bechtol, but he does know former Commodores wrestler Randall Webb is fighting in the Orlando area.

That's how Bab**** progressed. He wrestled at Palm Bay and found MMA as an outlet for his abilities, long after graduation.

Wynn said that's where the attraction lies for wrestlers of any age.

"Back in the day, there was nothing for the wrestler to do (after school)," he said. "There is no collegiate wrestling in the state of Florida. Now, the wrestler can have a goal. They can take their wrestling and put it into mixed martial arts."

Perhaps the most high-profile wrestler-turned MMA champ is Brock Lesnar. The 2000 NCAA wrestling national champion, while at the University of Minnesota, just won the UFC Heavyweight Championship by beating Randy Couture on Nov. 15.

Eventually, those like Dex can take their MMA and use it as a background for wrestling. And beyond.

For now, he is one of a few his age at the gym.

"Maybe (others) don't like it, but I don't know why you wouldn't. It's everything you could want," he said. "I love the sport. I want to make this my life."

[GeneChing]

I may have to check in with this article later - there's a potential flame war in the comments on this piece that looks like it'll be a laugh riot.

Legislators will try again to ban youth cage fighting
by Steve Grant, KY3 News
Story Updated: Dec 1, 2008 at 4:16 PM CST
By Gene Hartley

CARTHAGE, Mo. -- During the past decade, cage fighting has exploded into mainstream America. Shows featuring that sport are among the most-watched shows on cable television. In southwest Missouri, even children are into the action, which is why some state lawmakers want it stopped.

The fights are fierce. Grown men unleash a mixture of martial arts in a cage.

"Now for people to compete, there are competitions going on every weekend. It has grown that drastically that quickly,” said Rudy Lindsey, a mixed martial arts trainer and fight promoter.

They’re fueled by brutal brawls featured in leagues like the Ultimate Fighting Championship on television.

"I like all contact sports. I like to be in there,” said one fighter.

The once underground sport is breeding a new generation of fighters. Boys, and even a couple of girls, ages 6 to 16, compete in mixed martial arts.

"They think we're just out there putting each other down and fighting -- ****fighting -- but it's nowhere close to that,” said Hayden Swinehart, 10.

Hayden, along with his sister and older brother, are honor roll students. They're also cage fighters. Each has competed in youth mixed martial arts for three years.

"Most people ask me what's it's done for you. I tell them self-respect. They think that's silly,” said another fighter.

Children wear protective gear. A referee, doctor and coaches can stop the match at any time. But, like their adult counterparts, the children fight in a cage.

"We set up the rules so that there was not going to be an injury,” said Lindsey.

Lindsey began competing in MMA six years ago. After interest in MMA swelled among young wrestlers in Carthage, Lindsey started the Garage Boys Fight Crew.

"People ask, ‘How can you compare this to football and baseball?’ Football is a full contact sport; so is mixed martial arts. There are more injures in baseball than mixed martial arts,” said Lindsey.

"When the goal of a sport is to choke your opponent into submission so they can tap out, I have a problem with that,” said Dr. Scott Dattel of Kansas City Pediatrics.

Dattel concedes all contact sports carry a risk of injury. But he warns youth that MMA can promote aggressive behavior and cause damage.

It appears Missouri is the only state to allow sanctioned youth cage fighting. It's a misdemeanor in many states.

In April, some state legislators introduced a bill to ban youth cage fighting in Missouri. The bill didn’t pass.

"Most of the people who are making laws and accusations don't really understand the sport and aren’t taking the time to truly understand the sport,” said Lindsey.

The Garage Boys Fight Crew is about to open for another season. It appears, however, the biggest battle facing these aspiring UFC stars will be fought in the state capital instead of a cage.

"I hope they will let us do it again. It will get us ready if we go pro,” said Hayden.

Lawmakers say a committee hearing on the re-filed bill could come as early as January. Some fans say trying to ban the growing sport will only force it underground.

[GeneChing]

I'm just trying to imagine the parents. Do they know what they're getting their kids into nowadays?

Martial arts rule change a danger to kids: coach
Tracy Sherlock, Postmedia News · Friday, Oct. 29, 2010

A veteran mixed martial arts coach says he had to stop several children from being held down and punched in the head at a recent tournament, after new rules were introduced allowing youngsters to engage in "ground and pound."

Organizers of a tournament last weekend in Burnaby, B.C., included a new division that allowed children to be hit in the head once they are on the ground, despite rules prohibiting that level of violence. Competitors wear protective headgear.

Previously, hits to the head were permitted only when children were on their feet.

Children are at risk of concussions and other injuries if punching to the face is allowed once they are down, said Chris Franco, owner of Vancouver's Franco Kickboxing-Pankration gym.

"There was one child who is 95 pounds competing against another child who was 150 pounds," Mr. Franco said. "They were both 12 years old, but I stopped the match because I thought the (smaller) boy might be snapped in half.

"One of my students, who is a seven-year-old girl, had a bigger boy on her in what is called a mount position. The referee wasn't stopping it and the boy just kept hitting her in the head."

Mr. Franco, who has coached martial arts for more than 20 years, said he stopped the fight before the girl was hurt because he believed there was potential for severe injury.

However, Don Whitefield, who organized the new MMA division and is an MMA coach, said that the new rules were "better and safer."

"In the past during this tournament ... there always was lots of blood on the mat and it was not safe," Mr. Whitefield said in an email.

"The only problem I can think of was that some poor-fitting head gear (could slip) and impair the vision when clinching and grappling, since some parents hope their kids ... grow into the gear rather than buying properly fit gear."

Joe Ferraro, host of MMA Connected on Rogers Sportsnet, said only professional adult MMA fighters should use the "ground and pound" technique.

"I personally don't condone children grounding and pounding each other in tournaments," Mr. Ferraro told the Vancouver Sun.

"That's something that has to be taught and learned, and your body has to get conditioned to that. You don't throw somebody learning how to play hockey straight into a body-checking system. They have to learn how to skate first."

Parents sign waivers on behalf of their children to enter tournaments.

Jason Gagnon, who was a referee at the tournament and is an instructor with Mr. Whitefield at West Coast Jiu-Jitsu, said "the most important thing to us as coaches is that the kids are safe. We are very aware that these are not professional athletes, and want to make sure we can run the most successfully safe and fun tournaments for the participants."

Opponents point out, however, that while headgear offers protection in a standing fight, it's impossible for a competitor to "duck and weave" when being held on the ground, which increases the potential for damage.

[Lucas]

if parents want to let their kids get gnp, they should have to experience it themselves first. just like cops and tazers.

[TenTigers]

let's see how eager they are to include GnP once the first liability suits start rolling in.
all it's going to take is just one injury and lawsuit making it into the headlines.

[GeneChing]

There's nothing like that sound when someone GnP's someone else's head and the whole ring floor acts like a drum. I'm sure it sounds worse from the inside.

With the emerging research on chronic traumatic encephalopathy and it's ramifications for the NFL, one can't but wonder what the future holds for any sport that is concussive.

[GeneChing]

Children as young as 3 enrolling in mixed martial arts (MMA) classes
Published On Thu Nov 11 2010


Holding his ears, Nathan moves across the mat at Revolution Gym on Lesmill Road has a mixed martial arts training class for kids age 3-5 ("Munchkins MMA").

STEVE RUSSELL/TORONTO STAR
Alex Horkay Staff Reporter

It’s 5 p.m. and a dozen children have hit the mat at a Toronto club, training to be fierce combatants in one of the most brutal sports around — mixed martial arts.

But nobody’s getting their head jammed through the floor. To Tally Bodenstein-Kales, a child psychologist watching her 8-year-old son, Noah, learn the sport, it’s all good.

“What they see on TV is certainly the ugly side of the sport, the side that doesn’t appeal to many women, for sure,” she said. “But in reality when they actually go into these classes, it’s nothing like that. It’s very gentle and very elegant.

“And I think it’s been really good for his self-esteem,” she added.

Mixed martial arts are exploding in popularity due to ferocious Ultimate Fighting Championship bouts shown on pay-per-view TV. The McGuinty government’s decision in August to allow professional MMA fights in Ontario is also fuelling their popularity.

“And wait till it happens next year that there’s an event. Just wait. That’s going to be huge. We haven’t seen anything yet,” said Joel Gerson, president of Revolution MMA, which operates clubs in North York and Thornhill.

But gentle? Elegant? Mixed martial arts?

“The kids’ MMA that we do is very controlled. There’s very little contact to the face and to the head. It’s much more focused on the art and the self-discipline and the confidence,” said Gerson, whose club offers courses for children as young as 3.

“It’s not always about making the other kid tap out and squeegeeing blood off the mat.”

Joey de Los Reyes, an owner of the Kombat Arts Training Academy in Mississauga, agrees. “We really pride ourselves in teaching kids the other aspects of martial arts, things like discipline, focus being civil to people, humility, all that kind of stuff.”

Meanwhile, most adults interested in MMA are there for the fitness aspects.

“The reason is that people see these fighters and they’re in the best shape of any athlete,” Gerson said. “The fitness systems that these MMA athletes are using will get you in the best shape the fastest.

“I can come... not get punched in the face … and get in great shape and I’m not stuck on a treadmill staring at red dots for 45 minutes watching Seinfeld.”

People who want serious MMA training need to be careful because now a lot of fitness gyms and karate schools are offering MMA-type classes, Gerson warned.

“There’s probably just a handful of clubs that have the coaching, facilities and bodies enough to get someone to a level where they can be competitive and it’s not going to be your mom-and-pop karate shop.

“And the big thing is the safety,” he said. “You just can’t get just anybody (as an instructor) in there.”

Training for MMA can also be costly. Not much equipment is needed, but the lessons are very specialized, Gerson said.

“You’re looking at between $1,000 and $2,000 for your kid for a year typically.”

It’s worth it for Bodenstein-Kales. Her son gets exercise and help with listening through MMA classes.

“It helps him with his memory as well because he has to remember these certain moves that he’s doing. So it’s been great on many fronts,” she said.

“It’s not always about making the other kid tap out and squeegeeing blood off the mat.” Not always? That implies sometimes it is about this?

[taai gihk yahn]

There's nothing like that sound when someone GnP's someone else's head and the whole ring floor acts like a drum. I'm sure it sounds worse from the inside.

With the emerging research on chronic traumatic encephalopathy and it's ramifications for the NFL, one can't but wonder what the future holds for any sport that is concussive.

it's going to be a real sea-change, once the research starts quantifying the injuries; although the real sh1t storm will hit when the long-term health care costs get factored in...

[Hitman]

Boys as young as five have been taking part in cage fights which condemned as child abuse by martial arts experts last night.
The youngsters, who were not wearing headgear or other padding, were film in ten minute bout at a social club in Preston (UK).

Full detail can be find on today’s metro newspaper or metro.co.uk


Five years old kids do not the time to develop their martial skills and yet they are allow to fight in a cage. If two 5 years old kids fought inside a martial arts school and seriously got hurt. The martial arts school will be in big trouble and everyone will make a big fuss about it. Some parents will sue that martial arts school. Several fighters did get kill in the early stages of UFC years ago and now they want children to fight and get hurt.

One man did reported his wife and her family to the police in UK several years ago after finding video clips showing his wife and her family encouraging his five years son to beat up his three years daughter. The beating lasted for several minutes.
For some strange reasons it is ok for 5 years old kids to fight in a cage and entertain the blood lust audience in UK. Has the world gone mad!

[Ben Gash]

Are you a Daily Mail columnist? The kids were 8 and 9 and were competing in a grappling match at an MMA event. They were not "cagefighting".
Your statement "several fighters did get killed in the early stages of UFC" is also just plain wrong.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Full detail can be find on today’s metro newspaper or metro.co.uk


Five years old kids do not the time to develop their martial skills and yet they are allow to fight in a cage. If two 5 years old kids fought inside a martial arts school and seriously got hurt. The martial arts school will be in big trouble and everyone will make a big fuss about it. Some parents will sue that martial arts school. Several fighters did get kill in the early stages of UFC years ago and now they want children to fight and get hurt.

One man did reported his wife and her family to the police in UK several years ago after finding video clips showing his wife and her family encouraging his five years son to beat up his three years daughter. The beating lasted for several minutes.
For some strange reasons it is ok for 5 years old kids to fight in a cage and entertain the blood lust audience in UK. Has the world gone mad!

Your statement is flat out wrong! No fighters died in the early UFC's, count that, NONE!! While I agree with your stance on not allowing five year olds to compete in MMA, do not make up lies and drivel to try and sell your product!!