Stop B!tch'n...

[MightyB]

Seriously- I was hoping people had ideas on how to train kung fu to make it work more consistently in real-life / stressful situations.

I like ground fighting, but quite frankly, - well - it's as close to g@y as you can get with your clothes on.

Maybe I'm naive, but I think kung fu still has the potential to be the schiznit again. Whether it's a mindset, poor methodology, too many techniques, too much ritual, whatever it is, I think it can be corrected- but how?

[golden arhat]

4. The main reason you're wrong: Dude, you're like 16.

and that makes a difference why ?

5. The reason you know you're wrong: I'm John Takeshi, and I said so, beeyotch.

HE ADMITS IT


going in my sig

[The Willow Sword]

Jesus Christ will people just leave it alone already? You have your way of training and i have mine. MMA, Kung fu, Karate, JKD, TKD, Aikido, Shaolin whatever, WHATEVER.

People just gotta stop b!tchin about Kung fu and MMA. We have read, seen and heard just about every possible argument for and against Kung fu's effectiveness and the same with MMA's effectiveness. The designations of both seem to be the same yet they train differently and have a different mindset with different outcomes etc etc.
Kung-Fu is what it is and So is MMA. Kung-Fu'ers and MMA'ers need to pull the stick OUT of their @sses and stop fukin with each other.

What i am wondering is who really started all this cr@p between the two factions(if you can really call them factions) Was it the Kung-Fu'ers and their "my art is better than your art or forms better than your forms? I can defeat any Man BS.? Was it the MMA'ers and their "Kung fu is cr@p and whatever else the bullshido crowd sh!ts out on a daily basis?" im thinking its a tie between the two but ENOUGH ALREADY AND WHO CARES WHO STARTED WHAT?

The whole "Cant we just all get along" diatribe is redundant i know but I REALLY FEEL WE NEED TO ACTUALLY PUT THIS WISDOM TO ITS FULLEST EXTENT.
Both sides of the fence need to put in their place and weed out the little douchewads who think they are the know all to be all best fighters and who constantly sling sh!t at one another. Its the TEACHER's responsability to TEACH their students a certain amount of respect for any and all things out in the world, and its the STUDENT's responsability to have enough common god d@mn sense to follow it.
STFU already,,,,,,,,,,,Peace, TWS

[MightyB]

It's most likely is that we've lost faith in Kung Fu's effectiveness as to why that in combat situations the kung fu we practice looks like poor man's kickboxing. The only way that I can see for bringing faith back into it is to practice more and to find good sparring partners and trying to use proper kung fu in a "learning" fight.

I also see too much "one-handed fighting". This is where a person over relies on their strong side- boxers fight weak side forward because it allows for more power and combinations.

I think kung-fu is and can be the bomb- the basics of ground fighting has to be learned- but not to the dry humping extent of BJJ or submission wrestling.

[Ray Pina]

I like ground fighting, but quite frankly, - well - it's as close to g@y as you can get with your clothes on.

You should go take a BJJ class. I bet you find you'll like it for all the reasons you like Kung Fu. In fact, you'll be able to express your Kung Fu concepts (strong structure, sticking, flowing) in free play your first day without having to worry about getting punched or kicked. But you'll have to work them.

You'll probably have a lot of fun too.

Maybe I'm naive, but I think kung fu still has the potential to be the schiznit again. Whether it's a mindset, poor methodology, too many techniques, too much ritual, whatever it is, I think it can be corrected- but how?

Don't let anyone here make you feel like your style doesn't have enough. If you have kicking and punching and a solid blocking scheme, that you just have to train as hard as you want to be competitive with your peers.

[MasterKiller]

I like ground fighting, but quite frankly, - well - it's as close to g@y as you can get with your clothes on.

Personally, I think practicing kung fu but getting owned by high school wrestlers is much more g@y.

[MightyB]

Personally, I think practicing kung fu but getting owned by high school wrestlers is much more g@y.

Singlets make me laugh...

I've been cross training in Judo for quite some time and hold my own quite well with BJJ'ers and submission wrestlers- and I still find newaza a little g@y. I just happen to prefer using the submission wrestler's modified knee on belly for self defense over the standard hold downs from judo and jiu-jitsu.

Hey- if you guys like ride another man's back with your grapes in- all the best to ya'- it's just not my thing.

[Lucas]

now thats some funny shiznit

[Ray Pina]

Singlets make me laugh...

I've been cross training in Judo for quite some time and hold my own quite well with BJJ'ers and submission wrestlers-

I find it hard to believe that someone who dislikes grappling (usually an indicator that not enough time is spent working it) can hold their own against even decent BJJers. Are you tapping purple belts? Brown belts?

[Mr Punch]

Seriously- I was hoping people had ideas on how to train kung fu to make it work more consistently in real-life / stressful situations.

...whatever it is, I think it can be corrected- but how?

basics kiss resistance resistance resistance repeat ad infinitum.

Make boxing gloves and headgear standard issue.
... Shut up and train.

You should go take a BJJ class...

To which you can add 'Animal Day' and 'Dog Bros' to your real-life/stressful situation questions.

Er. End of thread?

!

[Shaolin Wookie]

Jesus Christ will people just leave it alone already? You have your way of training and i have mine. MMA, Kung fu, Karate, JKD, TKD, Aikido, Shaolin whatever, WHATEVER.

People just gotta stop b!tchin about Kung fu and MMA. We have read, seen and heard just about every possible argument for and against Kung fu's effectiveness and the same with MMA's effectiveness. The designations of both seem to be the same yet they train differently and have a different mindset with different outcomes etc etc.
Kung-Fu is what it is and So is MMA. Kung-Fu'ers and MMA'ers need to pull the stick OUT of their @sses and stop fukin with each other.

What i am wondering is who really started all this cr@p between the two factions(if you can really call them factions) Was it the Kung-Fu'ers and their "my art is better than your art or forms better than your forms? I can defeat any Man BS.? Was it the MMA'ers and their "Kung fu is cr@p and whatever else the bullshido crowd sh!ts out on a daily basis?" im thinking its a tie between the two but ENOUGH ALREADY AND WHO CARES WHO STARTED WHAT?

The whole "Cant we just all get along" diatribe is redundant i know but I REALLY FEEL WE NEED TO ACTUALLY PUT THIS WISDOM TO ITS FULLEST EXTENT.
Both sides of the fence need to put in their place and weed out the little douchewads who think they are the know all to be all best fighters and who constantly sling sh!t at one another. Its the TEACHER's responsability to TEACH their students a certain amount of respect for any and all things out in the world, and its the STUDENT's responsability to have enough common god d@mn sense to follow it.
STFU already,,,,,,,,,,,Peace, TWS

MMA and Kung Fu dudes are equally arrogant, so they tend to butt heads.

[Wood Dragon]

Train as you fight.

because:

You fight like you train.

IOW, if your training program does not include sparring/randori against a resisting opponent, you are going to have problems fighting against an opponent who wants to beat you.

This includes the "shock effect" of being struck. Boxers, Kyokushin Fighters, Thaiboxers and MMA practitioners are struck regularly in their training and competition. This serves as both a body-hardening (to an extent, YMMV) process and a mental acclimatization to being hurt.

Light gloves and head protection, then fight. If you aren't having any real success against a buddy, why would you expect any better result against someone who wants to harm/conquer you?

Lastly, a basic level of athletic capability is required. If you aren't strong or fast enough to pull off techniques on a resisting opponent, you are wasting your time. Fat Ninja? No!
Get a basic strength and endurance program together, and start losing excess weight (helps you gain much more agility).

Martial Arts practitioners with years invested in training get dominated by persons with high school wrestling, boxing or a smaller length of time in BJJ, not because any given Martial Art is deficient, but because that practioner's training is deficient.

Look at how much time (per week), in practical applications, against resisting opponents, the average high school wrestler puts in. Compare it with the number of hours (per week) the average karateka or kung fu practitioner puts in (all up, including warmups*, lion dancing and weapons stuff). That's why they win.
Form follows function, your core (of course, the techniques will be different) KF/karate training program should not be fundamentally different from a MMA practitioner or wrestler. If it is, you probably aren't doing something important.

Disclosure: I've been a karateka (Kyokushin and Daido Juku) for the last 13 years, and am also a shodan in Kodokan Judo. I am also a Level III MAC (Modern Army Combatives) instructor, on Active Duty (Staff monkey, atm).

*-warmups are not PT. Your physical training time is seperate (unless you follow the Army/USMC pedagogical method, where MAC/MCMAP is usually taught at the end of a PT evolution). 30 pushups and 2 minutes running in place does not a fighter make.

[MightyB]

Train as you fight.

because:

You fight like you train.

IOW, if your training program does not include sparring/randori against a resisting opponent, you are going to have problems fighting against an opponent who wants to beat you.

This includes the "shock effect" of being struck. Boxers, Kyokushin Fighters, Thaiboxers and MMA practitioners are struck regularly in their training and competition. This serves as both a body-hardening (to an extent, YMMV) process and a mental acclimatization to being hurt.

Light gloves and head protection, then fight. If you aren't having any real success against a buddy, why would you expect any better result against someone who wants to harm/conquer you?

Lastly, a basic level of athletic capability is required. If you aren't strong or fast enough to pull off techniques on a resisting opponent, you are wasting your time. Fat Ninja? No!
Get a basic strength and endurance program together, and start losing excess weight (helps you gain much more agility).

Martial Arts practitioners with years invested in training get dominated by persons with high school wrestling, boxing or a smaller length of time in BJJ, not because any given Martial Art is deficient, but because that practioner's training is deficient.

Look at how much time (per week), in practical applications, against resisting opponents, the average high school wrestler puts in. Compare it with the number of hours (per week) the average karateka or kung fu practitioner puts in (all up, including warmups*, lion dancing and weapons stuff). That's why they win.
Form follows function, your core (of course, the techniques will be different) KF/karate training program should not be fundamentally different from a MMA practitioner or wrestler. If it is, you probably aren't doing something important.

Disclosure: I've been a karateka (Kyokushin and Daido Juku) for the last 13 years, and am also a shodan in Kodokan Judo. I am also a Level III MAC (Modern Army Combatives) instructor, on Active Duty (Staff monkey, atm).

*-warmups are not PT. Your physical training time is seperate (unless you follow the Army/USMC pedagogical method, where MAC/MCMAP is usually taught at the end of a PT evolution). 30 pushups and 2 minutes running in place does not a fighter make.

Good Post-

[MightyB]

I find it hard to believe that someone who dislikes grappling (usually an indicator that not enough time is spent working it) can hold their own against even decent BJJers. Are you tapping purple belts? Brown belts?

Lame-

Who the F-ck knows. I live in Michigan- I'm skeptical of anyone claiming anything BJJ. Unless they've lived in or are from Texas (Machado), California (Gracie, Gokor, LeBell), or NY (Gracie)- I don't put much faith in their claim of distance learning BJJ-

The Judo and Sambo guys I train with are all Brown Belt and Above- most are "mat hard" from regular competition (my coach is a former HS wrestling coach- and I tell you- I'm so darn afear'd of high school wrestlers heck I was one way back when ), a few are from Severn's school in Coldwater. All of us know the same tricks- are good at Judo Newaza- and are smart enough to know how to ad a couple of ankle locks and neck cranks (LeBell was doing it long before the Gracie craze). We all participate in regular newaza randori with and without gi's. It's not like we live in a vacuum and don't know that it's important to be competent on the mat. And no- I don't win all the time- but I hold my own.

It's still kinda g@y

But- BJJ, MMA, are good catalysts for this discussion- but they're not what this discussion is about- it's about improving the training in kung fu schools- using kung fu techniques so that we can use something that looks like the kung fu we train in real life scenarios- whether it's on a lei tai mat- or the street.

[SimonM]

MMA is incomplete. It doesn't have the 5 animals, and I'm not allowed to steal the peach.

Ok C@ckpuncher... sure... MMA is incomplete because you can't tickle the teabags.

And they said JJ was ghey.