hello hello everyone. i need a small favor. im interested in seeking reliable historical evidence that some chinese martial arts and okinawan karate were never created for the purpose of zen or enlightenment. can anybody help? thanks.
Registered User
hello hello everyone. i need a small favor. im interested in seeking reliable historical evidence that some chinese martial arts and okinawan karate were never created for the purpose of zen or enlightenment. can anybody help? thanks.
Itinerant practitioner
i think it's pretty safe to say that most martial arts have little if anything to do with zen at all.
you'd have to find evidence to the contrary if anything.
Kung Fu is good for you.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Outside of some possible MODERN exceptions, all TMA, be them chinese, Japanese, korean or whatnot, were created for combat.
Any "spirituality" was added later.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Ninja Vanish!!
Please don't do that. If the truth gets out, at least half the members of this board will be involved in a group seppuku, and I will have no one to flame the hell out of.
"The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". -Cus D'Amato
Troll Slayer
how about the two dozen or so military mannuals we still have copies of that show martial arts, talk about how to use them to kill and make NO MENTION of buddhism, spirituallity etc?
yeah, but if we do that a few of the forum are sure to committ suicide
Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253
Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn
Moo Moo
kara te or tang shou or china hand.
it has nothing to do with chan or zen.
unfortunately, meditative meanings are incorporated in modern times.
do the way
ju do: gentle way
a ki do: harmony way
kara te do: way of empty hand
---
they are to cultivate some characters or spiritual persuits in addition to fighting
Moo Moo
if you strip the way away
then
you have the original techniques
ju jitsu
a ki jitsu
kara te jitsu
so take your pick.
so you have wu shu (bu jitsu) and not wu dao (bu do).
Moo Moo
Last edited by SPJ; 11-05-2009 at 07:35 AM.
Seven Star Prophet
You initial claim that most (if any) martial arts were created for the purpose of practicing a religion is erroneous. Where did you come to this position in the first place, it is not a conclusion anyone with more that cursory information of the martial arts would commonly colligate. Against whom do you need to prove you point? Hippies or Zealots?hello hello everyone. i need a small favor. im interested in seeking reliable historical evidence that some chinese martial arts and okinawan karate were never created for the purpose of zen or enlightenment. can anybody help? thanks.
Though there were many traditions of warrior monks from Buddhism, Zen, and Taoism. Many were similar to that of crusaders or Teutonic knights in that they were faithful but not ordained members of the Church/Temple, having not taken vows, but more like laymen “employed” by the Church. They were temple guards as in the case of Shaolin or the instruments of political feuds like the Sohei of Japan.
Shaolin monks are said to have taken up the martial arts to keep themselves healthy enough to complete their long chants, or to defend themselves from bandits, or more likely just introduced into the temple by monks and laymen who had previously learned the martial arts, but either way they got their martial arts from secular sources. The majority of Shaolin monks have always been non-martial monks, and it is not required for shaolin monks to practice martial arts.
Taoist monks or the Japanese Yamabushi could be said to have practiced their martial arts as a part of their religious practice, as the practice of the martial arts was suppose to lead to supernatural powers. Though, I don’t know that you would call it an act of worship.
I am unaware of any Martial arts being practiced by monks on Okinawa. Martial arts in Okinawa were “supposed” to be exclusive to the Pechin, or warrior class of Okinawa.
However all martial arts originated from folk wrestling and hunting methods which became combat arts designed for the battlefield and then latter modified and adapted for self-defense and other purposes. The Majority of Martial arts even those once practiced in the temples have little connection to any religion beyond a historical affiliation. Most martial arts are wholly secular in origin and practice.
Last edited by SanHeChuan; 11-05-2009 at 10:58 AM.
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pagan kickboxing taoist
Please don't do that. If the truth gets out, at least half the members of this board will be involved in a group seppuku, and I will have no one to flame the hell out of.Holy SH!t, you mean martial arts isn't some spiritual mumbo jumbo????how about the two dozen or so military mannuals we still have copies of that show martial arts, talk about how to use them to kill and make NO MENTION of buddhism, spirituallity etc?
yeah, but if we do that a few of the forum are sure to committ suicide
Any you guys need someone to lop your head off while you gut yourselves??
I'm available monday and thursdays in the evening, other than that you'll have to find someone else.
seriously does this actually suprise anyone? Only in recent years have people added the "zen/spiritual" crap. martial "meaning war like" does not come as a surprise to me. People just need an excuse for some things and here is a prime example.
Originally posted by BawangOriginally posted by Bawangi had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.
har har har
holy effing hell... idiotcy truly has no limits.
pagan kickboxing taoist
that it is rampant...
Originally posted by BawangOriginally posted by Bawangi had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.
har har har
and you're part of the trampled.
pagan kickboxing taoist
glad to see your beside me in times like this... trampled right along with me
Originally posted by BawangOriginally posted by Bawangi had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.
Registered User
Some warriors did seek out instruction in Zen for the purpose of training their mind. Their in general their primary purpose was to be a more effective killer.
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