I want to buy a Jian's/Gim's- but which one???

[No_SuRReNDeR]

Did not mean to seem "Snooty" about the Angel swords.

No,no, not at all. I didn't think that you seemed snooty. I have been looking around the web like crazy myself at all kinds of swords that I can afford and I can tell that those are some very nice blades. I came across a Jian on Steel Source that I think is made by windlass cutlary and they seem to be trying to sell off their remaining stock

http://www.thesteelsource.com/html/mr500796.htm

thats cheap 135$ for a high carbon steel blade and it looks OK like I said before I like that style.

When we talk about the "Snap" of the sword when doing a form, i have found that the angel swords give you the most snap due to their flexability. The Kris cutlery Gim that i have can provide that same snap but the blade is a little stiffer(but not so stiff that you cant whip it about).

I have a the old super floppy competition wushu Jians and to be honest I'm sick of the spring steel snappiness and it's not something I am looking for in sword. I want a sword that will behave realistically when I practice and I believe I can't use my old sword in competition anymore anyways. I think swords have to be able to support their own weight when stood up on the ground with the new standards.

[SimonM]

There is a difference between snap and a whippy sword made from wushu steel.

A sword with a good snap will seem to spring from position to position in your hand with notable positive tactile response. If, however, you stab somebody the sword won't bend.

[The Willow Sword]

The Two Windlass Steelcrafts blades i have are the "Chinese Barbarian sword"(they dont make this one anymore) description: like a darn dao but with a longer handle for two handed wielding. the blade is tough and i actually need to get it reshaped along the edge and cleaned up(hehe i started to use it to chop weeds and small branches in my yard. In My training days i used it as my practice sword.

The Other one i have is the Sword featured in the Movie "Kingdom of Heavan" the one that Liam Neeson used and then Orlando bloom. Its a crusaders sword. European broadsword.(sword of Ibelin)

The Tai chi sword i have is from Kris Cutlery( i linked it in my previous post)

here it is again. http://kriscutlery.com/documents/chinese.html

As for comparison to the Angel swords for snap, there really is no comparison. They are made so well and have a long lasting tone and ripple effect when you snap the blade, it literally vibrates your arm. I guess mainly because the weapon is full tang and the tang is just as tempered as the edged part of the blade ( i had a rare opportunity to whip one around at the ren fest, and they dont usually let just anyone fuk with their swords)mainly because they are sharp as hell and will slice right through you if you are not careful .
The Kris cultery one i have is full tang(thankfully,but it is not tempered like the edged part is, which would make it weaker if it actually clashed against something)
Most of these other "quality blades" have either a metal dowel rod tig welded to the sword or the tang is not tempered along with the rest of the blade. it was just held by its metal grip to be put in the fire and in the water and whatever else the process is you do to mass produce semi-decent weapons.

Here is the crusader sword by Windlass that i have(i dont believe they make this one anymore either) http://www.windlass.com/products/kingdomofheaven/


Peace,TWS

[SimonM]

Haven't taken my windlass apart yet so I don't know for sure but unless the salesman was lying to me the tang is NOT a metal rod tig-welded to the blade. I say this because I asked about that very problem after that last time.

I was practicing with a jian I bought at Shaolin Temple and it literally came apart in my hand because there was too much stress on the weld where the blade met the tang and it snapped.

[No_SuRReNDeR]

Oh that sucks, I would be worried about performing a demonstration or something and having the blade fly off and whack someone.

I most certainly want a full tang sword thats for sure. I have been thinking allot about the Zhi Forge swords are either of you guys familiar with these?

I like this one in particular for 299$ so with shipping $350 I want a sword to practice with so I am thinking it's probably best to by one like for practice now. Then save up for a $700-1500 live blade of high quality for display.

heres the sword It comes with a bag too which is pretty sweet.Scroll the page down to see all the pics.

http://www.zhisword.com/index.php?ma...roducts_id=177

Its folded with a 55 hardness. Oh and btw what is good hardness rating?

[The Willow Sword]

The Rockwell scale characterizes the indentation hardness of materials through the depth of penetration of an indenter under a major load on a material sample and compared to the penetration made by a minor load.(this is the short Wiki definition)

Now the Hardness of Steel in swords can be a tad misleading. One will see a sword with a Rockwell Hardness of say 55. Now that is a good hardness rating for a blade, HOWEVER, if the whole blade is a hardness of 55 it better be a real short one, like a knife. other wise you try to clash that thing with anything and it will most likely fracture and break. A good tempered Sword will have a relatively softer middle(springy) and a hard edge(to hold the sharpness). Most traditionally made japanese swords have this characteristic where they are folded many times to get that springy and durable feel to them(so they can stand up to cutting armour and flesh and clashing with other blades) the outer edge of the sword will; be harder than the inner body so that it can hold an edge.

IN the case of your Sword, No_surrender, they say the blade is folded and has a hardness rating of 55. Well, How many times is the blade folded? prolly just once or twice(for the price of that blade reflects how much went into the manufactoring of that particular blade) as for the hardness, i refer back to the original query i had about (if the whole blade is a hardness of 55 then it will be more brittle and prone to break if it is longer than say 10 inches) Also you gotta figure what kind of Metal is being used to make the sword.
Most places are using scrap metal(which can be good depending on the metal) Kris Cutlery,if i am not mistaken, is using the spring shocks off of Jeeps and other ATV's(all terrain vehicles) That metal is actually really good to use and they dont have to fold the metal or temper it too much. they just need to grind out a shape and do some other stuff to it( i tested mine once on an old box spring mattress) cut right through the wood and a few of the springs in the mattress in the first swipe,about 8 inches in) i pulled the blade out and the edge wasnt even damaged. thats how i knew that i had a good sword. If you go to the Windlass steel crafts site they have a video you can watch on how they make their weapons. its pretty cool.

IN retrospect, all this rambling doesnt change the fact that we dont fight with swords anymore and so wanting to have a sword to practice with,you can either spend your money on a collectors work of art,or you can spend not so much money on something that will at least stay together when you whip it around.

Im a sword nerd so i am going to be nerdy about it all and go for the collectors piece.

Peace,TWS

[No_SuRReNDeR]

Wow, you certainly know allot about swords thank you so much for the info.I have so many questions for you in the future but just one right now. Do you then having said all that think that the Master Zhi Sword from my last post would be a good sword for practice? I read that they can send it un-sharpened. Plus I think it's a good deal.

Also I do plan on eventually buying a very high quality sharpened sword when it is financially feasable but for now I just want something to practice, demo and maybe compete with that will behave more like a real sword and make people go "Man thats a pretty sweet sword!"-lol


Thx again man, you have been very helpful!

[SimonM]

Prior to fold-forging technology bronze swords which were cast also managed multiple hardness blades by forming a central, soft core of bronze and then casting the harder edges around it.

[The Willow Sword]

Yeah man go for it. If that is the sword that "speaks to you" and it has the look you want and such, go for it, and YES have them send one Unsharpened. The blade will be more durable and last longer if it is not sharpened. (plus it is a practice weapon so you dont really need it sharpened anyway). UNLESS you want to join the ranks of Nerd'om. and get it sharpened (just dont disembowel yourself bro)
Peace,TWS

[GLW]

Be aware of the where and who of practicing with anything other than an unsharpenable blade.

State laws vary. For example, in Texas, the strict letter of the law says that swords are illegal. Funny how you can get a license for a carry concealed gun but a sword is verboten.

Now, they WILL cut you some slack if you are obviously carrying it to and from a martial arts practice or in a demo....but I wouldn't expect that slack if you were practicing in a park...even as a group.

Also, you need to be aware of where you are and who is around. I would personally never use live steel in a public demo. The chance of any small accident and litigation is there. I also would not use live steel in a regular class. We have always had at least one oblivious person in class who would walk in front of a sword going full speed. We take the approach that if you have the weapon, you are responsible for it and regardless of what the idiot does, you are to blame for any weapon injury....cuts down on er trips that way.

I have also come very close to having to open up a serious can of whupass on a person for messing with mine or other weapons that were not their own... that is bad enough with practice swords...but can be really a problem with live steel.

I have used live steel...a deceased friend has a very nice angel sword...and a few others. Of the ones I have used, the angel was the best.... I DO go out of my way to make sure that my practice blades are as close in feel to the live ones like the angel sword.

But...a few years ago my wife gave me a choice...an Angel sword or a motorcycle... The bike is in the garage right now.

[The Willow Sword]

a few years ago my wife gave me a choice...an Angel sword or a motorcycle... The bike is in the garage right now.

LOL! Yeah id prolly take the bike as well.

Peace,TWS

[No_SuRReNDeR]

Yeah I think I'm gonna go with my gut and buy the Zhi sword then...thanks for all the advise and yeah...I'd take the motorcycle too--lol

[uki]

personally i have a qi jian, forged from a single billet of steel, rayskin handle. cas hanwei forge dalian, china. retails at about 600 bucks... solid steel, handle and all... the rayskin is the only other material.

[No_SuRReNDeR]

Yeah Ive seen those on WLE they look like very nice swords, I like the Hanwei stuff.

[uki]

Yeah Ive seen those on WLE they look like very nice swords, I like the Hanwei stuff.

i also have a cas iberia banshee from paul chen. very nice, simple. fits in the backpack with juggling clubs.