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Thread: The Real Shaolin by Alex Sebastien Lee

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by uki View Post
    i think you are in denial... the truth of this fact is because this magazine operates most entirely on the belief that there is infact real shaolin in the china temples... imagine what this place would turn into once the truth comes out... talk about being hoodwinked.
    hahaha... religion is a sham aswell.
    true, but it's the false advertisement that is irksome.
    but, shaolin is a buddhist temple first and foremost. the whole martial arts thing is quite secondary and has only been placed where it is due to a lot of modern misconception.

    anyway, there's plenty of martial arts available in and around shaolin and quite a lot of it is pretty decent stuff. Certainly not cakewalk type stuff. I wouldn't sell them short.

    I still don't think you need to go to shaolin to learn good kungfu. There's plenty of excellent martial arts everywhere nowadays.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  2. #32
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    You don't *need* to go to Shaolin to train kung fu...

    ...but it's a lot of fun to train there. It can be very spiritual, if you are open to it. And you can be abused by tourist scams, but that's all part of it too - part of the tradition. There are registered complaints about Shaolin tourism that go back 400 years, twice the age of the United States. Think about that.
    Gene Ching
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  3. #33
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    More on Real Shaolin

    In the wake of TIFF
    Just Hollywood lore?

    The mention of Shaolin Temple conjures up images of a quiet and peaceful monastery on a remote mountain in China, a peaceful retreat, a place to worship, a place to reflect, and dozens of monks practicing kungfu.

    Alexander Sebastien Lee, a Korean-American, was one of those with such an idea, thanks to the Jackie Chan and Jet Li movies of his childhood. But when he actually went to visit Shaolin Temple and studied kungfu there in 2003, he found a very different Shaolin Temple, the birthplace of Chinese kungfu.

    After graduating from the USC School of Cinema-Television, Lee saw a documentary about the Shaolin monks and their amazing physical feats. The monks would head butt sandbags, kick trees, and break spears by pressing down on the pointed end with their throats. Born in Los Angeles, Lee studied the Korean martial art Taekwondo from the age of 7, which prepared him for the basics of kungfu.

    "I wanted to see if I could withstand the brutal training, and was extremely curious about the legendary birthplace of martial arts," Lee says. However, that trip which was supposed to last three months, gave birth to another idea - a documentary about the modern day Shaolin Temple, The Real Shaolin.

    A trip to Shaolin Temple inspired Alexander Sebastien Lee to make a documentary about life at the temple today.

    Instead of explaining the history of the Shaolin Temple or showing amazing qigong demonstrations, first-time director Lee wanted to understand the daily practices of the kungfu students and the reasons for Westerners to travel so far to learn a Chinese martial art.

    Kungfu may be the stuff of Hollywood lore, but the roots of the ancient martial arts run deep in the temple's hallowed ground.

    When he arrived in Shaolin Temple, it was very different from what he had expected. Shaolin is no longer a quiet monastery on the top of a serene mountain filled with monks practicing kungfu. It is now a tourist attraction, and the epicenter of a kungfu city with more than 100 kungfu schools and 40,000 students.

    The director sets the documentary in Dengfeng (dubbed "Kungfu City"), Henan province, where the Shaolin Temple is located, and follows two Chinese and two Westerners who journey to the Shaolin Temple. Over months of difficult lessons and life-changing experiences, the four students reveal just how much hard work goes into those dazzling moves.

    When asked how he found the four characters, he simply says "yuan fen" (follow destiny). But each of the four characters follows different kungfu dreams at Shaolin Temple: 9-year-old Chinese boy Yuan Peng is abandoned at the Shaolin Temple and is adopted by a Shaolin monk. He dreams of becoming a monk with courage and righteousness, like Jet Li in the film The Shaolin Temple. Orion, a 19-year-old American, believes that the martial arts are a way of life, a philosophy that - he says - is not understood by most Americans. He journeys to Shaolin inspired by Bruce Lee's incredible enthusiasm for the martial arts. Zhu is 19 years old and comes from a Chinese farming family. He is a student at the largest martial arts school in the world named Tagou. He trains in the modern kungfu sport called Sanda, which is a brutal competitive sport resembling kickboxing. Eric is 29 years old and journeys from France determined to be the first non-Chinese Shaolin monk. Under the famous Shaolin grandmaster Shi Deyang, Eric is accepted on the condition that he remains exclusively at Shi's school for a minimum of three years.

    "The idea behind The Real Shaolin is that the modern day Shaolin Temple differs greatly from what we imagine in the movies," Lee explains.

    Many people watch martial arts movies and dream of becoming a grand kungfu master. But the reality, as portrayed in The Real Shaolin, which debuted at the Toronto International Film Festival last week, has little to do with flying fists and more with hard work and training.

    There is a Shaolin saying, "In order to learn the martial arts, one must eat bitter". It resembles the American expression "No pain, no gain". Even though one can study Shaolin kungfu in America, it cannot measure up to real Shaolin training, which goes for eight hours per day, six days per week, for years on end.

    The movie The Shaolin Temple shows Jet Li carrying pails of water up a mountain. Lee, after spending over a year with kungfu teachers and students at Shaolin Temple, thinks Jet Li's bitter training has been "romanticized".

    "But when you train in Shaolin and attempt to do full splits, there is nothing romantic about excruciating groin pain," Lee says.

    With all the pain and hardship, what purpose does kungfu serve anyway? Kungfu can be used for self-defense, to boost one's health, and for spiritual fulfillment.

    Lee got his answer after experiencing the real Shaolin Temple. It helps to eliminate fear, he says. "If you are confident in yourself and not afraid of others, then you can put aside your ego and open your heart to others. That is one of the precepts in Buddhism, and a method to establish a universal brotherhood among men," he says.

    However, the modern day Shaolin Temple at first glance is a tourism site and many Western visitors wonder, "Where are the old masters who practice endlessly in search of enlightenment, not wealth?"

    Lee says he hopes the film can inspire viewers to explore the real Shaolin themselves. "As I spent more time living at Shaolin, I understood that the spirit of Shaolin lives on," he says.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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  4. #34
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    I still haven't seen the finished version

    Has anyone seen this yet?
    The Real Shaolin: An Interview with Project Involve Fellow Alexander Sebastian Lee
    Jan 6, 2009

    Q: What is your filmmaking background prior to making The Real Shaolin? What was your initial inspiration for the film?

    I studied film production at USC and graduated at the end of 2002. Like many film students, I wasn’t sure what project I would make right after finishing school. I saw a documentary on TV about the Shaolin monks and their amazing Kung Fu. The name inspires images of a serene temple on a mountaintop with hundreds of monks being taught deadly secrets by an old monk with a long white beard. So I began researching about China and then packed and took off.

    I trained in Kung Fu at Shaolin for almost 3 months. I used to train in a large hall with my school’s performance team, made up of mostly young boys who would perform Kung Fu shows for tourists. They were great subjects for a documentary that would show the lives of Kung Fu students at the modern day Shaolin Temple. The documentaries that I viewed before coming to Shaolin were not realistic at all, and only perpetuate the myth that we see in the movies. So I wanted to deconstruct the myth of Shaolin by putting a human face to the stories of the young boys who train there.

    Q: Where did you shoot, when did production start, and how long was the shoot?

    I began production at Shaolin in September 2003 and planned to stay for 6 months but ended up shooting for more than a year. It took time and effort to whittle down the story to only four characters that end up in the completed film.

    Q: What format did you shoot on and how big was your crew?

    I shot the film in 24p DV with the Panasonic DVX-100. The camera was pretty new at the time, which was exciting as I love cutting edge technology, but I felt like a guinea pig as most people did not have experience with that camera and its post-production workflow. The small form factor also allowed me to achieve an intimacy with my subjects that would be harder with a large shoulder mount camera. The DVX-100 was truly revolutionary. Because my film was low budget, I couldn’t afford to hire a cameraman so I ended up shooting the film myself.

    Q: Were there any particularly challenging aspects to the shoot?

    The most challenging part of filming was finding Chinese subjects who were comfortable with my camera. The Chinese generally are more reserved and not as talkative as Americans, so finding subjects who were not self-conscious while I filmed them was pretty difficult. Many Kung Fu students thought I would film some cool-looking forms like breaking bricks over their heads, as seen in majority of Shaolin documentaries. Instead, I would interview these kids and ask them very personal questions, like why their parents sent them to Shaolin. Most kids at Shaolin don’t want to admit that their parents are poor farmers who don’t want their kids to follow in their footsteps. I was lucky to find my two Chinese subjects, Zhu and Yuan Peng who were so open and graceful while filming.

    Q: Did you have the bulk of your financing in place when you began, or were you piecing it together throughout the making of the film?

    My film was financed through personal savings and the help of my family. I believe that documentaries can be shot cheaply, but post-production can become a very expensive process. As my film grew and the caliber of post-production technicians who worked on the film improved, I received funding from a Chinese production company, which helped a great deal. Funding a movie remains a mysterious process to me, but I’m glad that I didn’t wait two years searching for funding before going to China to shoot my movie. I would advise any young filmmaker if you’re hitting roadblocks with funding to just go out and shoot it, a la Robert Rodriguez. His book had a big influence on me.

    Q: Did the film evolve a lot in the post-production process? Did the structure of the film change significantly from how you first envisioned it when you began the film?

    While shooting the film, I had ideas for concepts and themes but did not have a concrete idea what the final film would turn out like. This was my first documentary, first feature, and I was improvising as I went along. Editing was the most difficult part of making this film as I had over 140 hours of footage, and there were so many ways to approach the story. I began working with an experienced editor who helped form the basic foundation of the four stories. I then worked with a young USC filmmaker named Michael Shu who did the bulk of the editing work. I have the deepest respect for Michael as he worked tirelessly on the film to realize my vision and did a fantastic job.

    Q: The film premiered this past fall at the Toronto International Film Festival. What was that experience like for you?

    The Toronto International Film Festival (TIFF) was one of the most amazing experiences in my life. After working on a film for five years, it’s the greatest high in the world when you have your world premiere in a 600 seat theater to loud applause. All three of our public screenings were completely sold out, and the audience reaction to the film was extremely positive. The Real to Reel Documentary Programmer Thom Powers arranged a Kung Fu performance at Yonge-Dundas Square, which is the Times Square of Toronto. Over 700 people showed up because of the buzz built around The Real Shaolin thanks to the TIFF programmers. I was thoroughly impressed by the kindness of the TIFF staff, the efficiency of the TIFF organization, and the passion for cinema by the Toronto audiences.

    I’d like to also mention that without Project:Involve, I couldn't have taken The Real Shaolin to Toronto. Project:Involve provided me with an amazing mentor, Fenton Bailey, who is the president of World of Wonder Productions. I was fortunate that I was already in post-production on The Real Shaolin, so my monthly meetings with Fenton were very productive. Fenton liked my filmmaking so much that he hired me to direct an IFC program called Terror from Tokyo. I never expected to be hired by my mentor, but it definitely made my Project:Involve experience fulfilling!

    Q: Are there release plans for the film now, or are you still working on the distribution front?

    I’m currently taking The Real Shaolin on a worldwide film festival tour. My sales agent, Films Transit, has been handling the distribution end. Although no deals have been completed yet, I have faith as there is extreme interest in the martial arts and China. I’m very fortunate to have participated in TIFF, as being accepted into a top three film festival is the best calling card for a film. TIFF has given us the opportunity to be contacted by the top independent distributors out there.

    Q: Now that you've been through production on your first feature, is there any advice you would give to a first time filmmaker just about to do his or her first feature?

    Americans love catchphrases, so I would say you need the 3 P’s: Passion, Persistence, and People.

    Passion: Filmmakers always talk about passion when making movies; so much that it’s become a cliché. In the end, once you’ve spent 5 years working on a film, do you still enjoy watching it? You want to make sure that the film you are about to embark on, you are ready to spend several years of your life working on.

    Persistence: You cannot take “no” for an answer, as nothing is impossible. You also have to be tough enough to weather the storms of the critics and industry that might not like your film. Once you believe in yourself and your work, then other people will also believe in you.

    People: You need good people to make good movies because film is a collaborative art. So being a good filmmaker also entails being a good leader who is determined enough to push forward with your vision, but sensitive enough to understand the human needs of cast and crew. I would tell an indie filmmaker who has trouble hiring “good” people because of money reasons to create a great script or documentary pitch, because these people are starving to find meaningful projects in this era of movie sequels and franchises.

    Q: What else are you working on now? Do you have another film that you are planning to make in the near future?

    I wrote a script while at USC called Paris Nights, a coming of age comedy about four exchange students in Paris who have a crazy night out on the town. I want to adapt the story to take place in Shanghai, as I love this city and feel that a part of my destiny lies in China. I’m looking for a talented writing partner to collaborate on the script.

    Alexander Sebastien Lee is a 2006 Project:Involve alumnus. The Real Shaolin recently had its world premiere at the 2008 Toronto International Film Festival. Alexander continues to develop film and TV projects that focus on China and its growing presence on the world stage.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  5. #35
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    lineage and dharma

    In my experience, those who are not concerened about lineage in martial arts generally don't have a lineage of their own to speak of.

    For example, I've met some "kung fu" masters in my home town (London, Ontario) who taught himself off of videos. This worked in the 80's and 90's because the guy was Chinese and people didn't ask questions back then. To his credit, he learned some forms and taught himself enough kick boxing to get by. With lots of time on his hands and plenty of gym space, he also got himself nice and flexible, so he could get his leg up nice and high.

    Of course without lineage or a authentic teacher to speak of, he could never know the application, and his forms were just dance, and his "kung fu fighting" was just kick boxing.


    A wise person once told me that a dog can raise it's leg over a fire hydrant to take a leak, but that doesn't make him a martial artist.


    After awhile, this fellow had to come up with a story to cover his lack of linneage, so he made up a story about his father being in the military and having taught him when he was a child (unless he's come up with something new in the meantime). Having seen this fellow in action (or inaction) I can say that whoever taught this guy, he has no lineage because he doesn't know kung fu.

    As for transmitting the Dharma ... I've spent many years studying Asian philosophy and have taken several courses on the topic. Those people that I know that understand the true meaning of words like Dharma don't bother using them.

    It is ironic that the meaning of Dharma in saskrit is most closely associated with religious duty (following the true path). In this case, wouldn't following the true path suggest following a lineage, not making it up as you go along?

    I guess I would start philosophizing on the internet myself if I didn't have a teacher who had a lineage.
    Last edited by burningmonk; 01-12-2009 at 06:46 PM.

  6. #36
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    Well....I guess there are far too many masters out there and not enough students......

  7. #37
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    anyone calls themself a sifu these days. lol

    so how is documentary, any good?
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Mantis View Post
    Genes too busy rocking the gang and scarfing down bags of cheetos while beating it to nacho ninjettes and laughing at the ridiculous posts on the kfforum. In a horse stance of course.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songshan View Post
    Well....I guess there are far too many masters out there and not enough students......
    too many chiefs and not enough indians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolinlueb View Post
    anyone calls themself a sifu these days.
    i call myself a student... a good student is his own master.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Bok Se Teung View Post
    Uki is correct. There is no real Shaolin left in China. Most of the temple priests had left China even before the communists took over. In 1933 the communists, though not in power yet, burned and looted the remaining temples. The remaining monks and priests scattered, some to Hong Kong, but most to North America.

    Those who have been to Honan, including myself and distinguished masters such as Jon Funk can attest there is no evidence of a single genuine Kung Fu style being taught today. The communists replaced Kung Fu with Wu Shu, which de emphasizes the martial aspects. Wu Shu can best be described as a combination of dance and aerobics. It looks good, is difficult and can give you a real work out, but it is not Kung Fu. It is lacking in chi development among other things.

    The communists have reinstituted many of the traditional temples, filling them with actors and aerobats in order to draw tourists and hard cash. They continue to suppress Buddhism - and remember Shaolin is a form of Chuan Buddhism sprinkled with Taoism. Don't believe me, then take a look at what's happening in Tibet to the Buddhist monks and priests. Or consider this. Would a true disciple of Shaolin, or Buddhism for that matter, perform for money? Monks are taught to divulge themselves from worldly possessions and to carry a begging bowl. Would they sell "Shaolin Cola" at a religious temple? Would you ever see a monk or priest at a traditional Shaolin Temple smoking a cigarette? You'll find all of this and more at the newly reconstituted Communist Tourist Trap at Honan that masks as a Shaolin temple.

    Go in peace and stay true to the faith.

    Bok
    ok..well, meanwhile back in 1972...

    You do realize that crap is taught in North America as well?

    You do realize that there has been radical change at Shaolin in even the past 5 years?

    You do realize that buddhism is a legitimate line of study in virtually any chinese university?

    You do realize that it's unlikely you are a shaolin monk without a degree in buddhist studies?

    You do realize that every temple has a collection plate and some will even do a service for that collection?

    I think your prejudice outweighs your knowledge here and it sounds like you have a grudge, because the other thing you could realize is that change occurs everyday.

    I understand what you are saying. I would have even agreed with you, a decade ago.

    For the most part, it is the optics on this end that are screwed when it comes to what is and what isn't "real".

    What the various monks do is beyond what many "masters" here are even capable of. For that, Shaolin deserves props. They got methods that would make average men run away fast from the training regimens.

    Don't believe me? take another look. there is a lot of change.

    Of course, there is still a lot of value in the tcma that has been out of the temple, but it is usually this that gets corrupted. Shaolin is making a real effort at returning and the masters there are clear evidence of strong training, strong discipline and the correct methods.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  10. #40
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    anyone know what ever happened to that german guy who had been training traditionally in shaolin for a while? i remember reading that article on him in kfm, but now it just popped into my head. im simply curious.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  11. #41
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    Do you mean sHan Li, Lucas?

    The Foreigner in Shaolin Temple: A Story of sHan Li, the Longest Staying Foreigner in Shaolin in over 500 Years By Erik Nagelvoort, 2005 May/June.

    Last I heard, he wrote a book on Shaolin legends titled The Discovery. It's on his website - see www.shanli.org
    Gene Ching
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    The Foreigner in Shaolin Temple: A Story of sHan Li, the Longest Staying Foreigner in Shaolin in over 500 Years By Erik Nagelvoort, 2005 May/June.

    Last I heard, he wrote a book on Shaolin legends titled The Discovery. It's on his website - see www.shanli.org
    sweet, thanks for the link-fu master gene. ill be giving that a look over pretty soon.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  13. #43
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    Showing at the Los Angeles Asian Pacific Film Festival

    And I still haven't seen this film...
    SAT, MAY 02 - 05:00 PM | Laemmle's Sunset 5
    THE REAL SHAOLIN

    The path of a warrior monk is not an easy one, even if their jaw-dropping martial arts feats can appear effortless. THE REAL SHAOLIN follows two Chinese and two Western students of kung fu over months of difficult lessons and life-changing experiences, revealing just how much hard work goes into those dazzling moves.
    The Shaolin Temple in Central China is the legendary birthplace of kung fu. Decades ago, it was destroyed and its practitioners reduced. But the rise of kung fu movies – and especially the release of The Shaolin Temple, starring Jet Li – inspired an effort to rebuild the temple, which led to a new surge of students. First-time director Alexander Sebastien Lee is a Korean-American who originally visited Shaolin to study kung fu himself. His insider's knowledge pays off immensely, and he gains incredible access to the different schools set up around Shaolin. Though we do not have to suffer their aches and pains, we get our own education by following the four students. From China, nine-year-old orphan Yuan Peng learns the mystical practice of “Iron Body Qigong,” and Zhu, a teenager from a poor rural family, trains in the kick-boxing sport of Sanda. From the West, a nineteen-year-old American named Orion aspires to become like his hero Bruce Lee, and Eric, a twenty-nine-year-old Frenchman, yearns to study with the Shaolin Grand Master Shi De Yang. The film skillfully weaves together their trials and tribulations as each strives to achieve their own goals.
    (United States/Peoples Republic of China, 2008) Dir.: Alexander Lee

    Video, 89 min., Color, Documentary, English, Mandarin and French w/ES
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
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  14. #44
    so i take it this is a new movie eh?

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Bok Se Teung View Post
    Uki is correct. There is no real Shaolin left in China. Most of the temple priests had left China even before the communists took over. In 1933 the communists, though not in power yet, burned and looted the remaining temples. The remaining monks and priests scattered, some to Hong Kong, but most to North America.

    Those who have been to Honan, including myself and distinguished masters such as Jon Funk can attest there is no evidence of a single genuine Kung Fu style being taught today. The communists replaced Kung Fu with Wu Shu, which de emphasizes the martial aspects. Wu Shu can best be described as a combination of dance and aerobics. It looks good, is difficult and can give you a real work out, but it is not Kung Fu. It is lacking in chi development among other things.

    The communists have reinstituted many of the traditional temples, filling them with actors and aerobats in order to draw tourists and hard cash. They continue to suppress Buddhism - and remember Shaolin is a form of Chuan Buddhism sprinkled with Taoism. Don't believe me, then take a look at what's happening in Tibet to the Buddhist monks and priests. Or consider this. Would a true disciple of Shaolin, or Buddhism for that matter, perform for money? Monks are taught to divulge themselves from worldly possessions and to carry a begging bowl. Would they sell "Shaolin Cola" at a religious temple? Would you ever see a monk or priest at a traditional Shaolin Temple smoking a cigarette? You'll find all of this and more at the newly reconstituted Communist Tourist Trap at Honan that masks as a Shaolin temple.

    Go in peace and stay true to the faith.

    Bok
    Reply]
    Actually, you are wrong. There ARE genuine Shaolin masters at, or around Shaolin. You just have to know where to look. You may not find them at the Shaolin Wushu Guan, but much of the true Shaolin was preserved in the surrounding villages. it's still alive and well there.

    On the other hand, you are right that many true masters left. Many infact went to Malaysia, and Indonesia. Indonesia actually has some prime examples of authentic Old School Shaolin, sill in it's ancient and pure 100% functional form. If you are a well schooled Shaolin player, check out William De Thouars and his Kuntao Silat. You will find brilliant usage and application for even the most obscour and exotic Shaolin techniques. Most of it is done with such simple common sense you will be wondering why you never saw it before now.

    The De Thouars Kuntao is a smorgst board of preserved Shaolin applications thought to be long lost in most Chinese schools.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

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