Banned
I’m sorry, I don’t follow that sport, and I don’t fight for points…
That’s when one should adjust with bridge contact when striking which is a advantage when fighting humans, where as the matador had no bridge and still stood his ground… Mentally it’s very comparable…Originally Posted by WoodenYummy
Ali Rahim.
詠春係一個家庭
You beat me to the punch. I was just about to say that Ali, Foreman, Tyson, and other great fighters have had to step back. I don't think they're "tough cowards". You mentioned TWC in your initial post so you should expect dissent from some camps.
Registered User
Of course we can move anyway ....depends on the environment ...avoid a dead end /corner, facing 2-3 head on ...1st come 1st served , but who's on 1st....I dont know so I let them come and show me..I might have to make someone come after me by stepping back to draw them in...flanking is about either angling or facing to angle a moving opponent , we can move on a clock face . I can go sidways to make you chase me as a target , only to make you go further than intended by sudden stops ....feinting is king .
The mind is free to express itself with the reality before it.
The weapons are to fire once the positions are taken....but only a fool would be firing head on to a rushing army with a machine gun....now if he moved to the side/s the advancing army would present themselves as dominoes , and we all know what happens when you hit the first one ....
more soldiers died attacking trenches with flanking machine gun positions , than by gas or any other means in World War I . In WWII the americans knew this tactic and attacked the 'seemingly' open fields by going for the corners of the battle fields...flanking isnt new.
tactics, tactics ,tactics.
Chris Gray
You beat me to the punch. I was just about to say that Ali, Foreman, Tyson, and other great fighters have had to step back. I don't think they're "tough cowards". You mentioned TWC in your initial post so you should expect dissent from some camps.
Ali, Foreman, Tyson all had the cushion of a 8-10 count and a referee. Matadors dont. Neither does any man who is about to engage an opponent in a real fight.
Last edited by Graychuan; 08-21-2008 at 08:36 AM.
我听见，我忘记；我看见，我记住；我做，我了解。
I hear, I forget; I see, I remember; I do, I understand.
Banned
You beat me to the punch. I was just about to say that Ali, Foreman, Tyson, and other great fighters have had to step back. I don't think they're "tough cowards". You mentioned TWC in your initial post so you should expect dissent from some camps.
But when they didn’t step back the fight was over much quicker just as the matodor and the bull, just watch any ‘Tyson’ fight and sometimes it was over before one could sit down…
The one with foreword momentum nowadays usually catches the judges’ eye and will control the fight… And 'Ali was talented; it’s only three to four people that can do what he did in the ring, if that... And we have all seen what happen to him in the end, you only can drop your hands and run for so long before you get caught…
Ali Rahim.
Last edited by Ali. R; 08-21-2008 at 09:35 AM.
Chris Gray
This is very true. Ali was moving back when Wepner caught him.
我听见，我忘记；我看见，我记住；我做，我了解。
I hear, I forget; I see, I remember; I do, I understand.
Banned
And so did 'Frazer' and 'Norton', they both broke Ali’s jaw, and 'Larry Holmes' ought to be in prison for what he did to ‘Ali’, one of the saddest days of my life…
Even though 'Wepner' was out classed he never stopped coming in, and that’s the only reason why he stayed in their with ‘Ali’ and gave him a fit…
If he would have stayed on the outside ‘Ali’ would have picked him apart like a four day old thanksgiving turkey… Well, I think he did that anyway, but it would have been a lot worst if he stayed on the outside…
Ali Rahim.
Last edited by Ali. R; 08-21-2008 at 09:17 AM.
Student of life
OK, first you say you don't follow that sport, then you spout off their histories like you've written their biographies???? And when did ANYONE ever suggest STAYING on the outside? This whole discusion was about the option of "stepping" outside or off the line, not "staying" outside or off the line. I (nor anyone else, from what I've read) ever suggested that by using this "back & off the line" concept that we would fight entirely from this position, did we? It's a move, not a whole fighting strategy... Jeez. OBVIOUSLY, one would need to step in and attack ASAP, but this "could" include having to move out of the way of a hay-maker and such if it were powerful enough. There are quite a few WC techniques that utilize this idea of following their energy as it passes you to compromise them and pin their elbow...
I think I am in agreement with your general premise that its better to shut it down before it begins, but this is reality we are discussing not fantasy, anyone who claims they can & will shut down every opponent before they hit them is fooling themselves IMO. There are too many other factors involved, you can't possibly cover for all the possible scenarios that can occur.
By your own logic, which Grey seems to subscribe to, in every "other" fight of Tyson, Ali, Frazier and such they were tough cowards because they didn't just run in and end it immediately? OK, fair enough, everyone's entitled to an opinion...
"It is better to know thyself than show thyself"
Registered User
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBa9B...eature=related
"I don't know if anyone is known with the art of "sitting on your couch" here, but in my eyes it is also to be a martial art.
It is the art of avoiding dangerous situations. It helps you to avoid a dangerous situation by not actually being there. So lets say there is a dangerous situation going on somewhere other than your couch. You are safely seated on your couch so you have in a nutshell "difused" the situation."
Student of life
OK, but your statements sounded like you were saying anyone who does anything other than step right in is a tough coward. And you seemed to take what I said and twist it if you are making comments about "running from a fight" because I asked about stepping back & off the line. It is easy to misunderstand one another in this medium, that much I think we would agree on. I am not trying to confuse anyone, or build any puzzles, I am just looking to tap into some of the wisdom of the many other WC practitioners gathered here, whether I agree with them or not, I still appreacite your input. So thanks!
"It is better to know thyself than show thyself"
Registered User
Thought this was interesting given the direction of the thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKkKR...eature=related
Student of life
While we are on the topic of things I never said... My Sifu has given me answers, I was putting this out there to hear what other lineages and instructors had to say about it since I have studied in two different lineages with different approaches. I am not upset in the least, just baffled by how easily people hear (or read) what they want to. I am a big believer in jamming and intercepting as well, I just don't think its the end-all-be-all of WC, and that there are situations where it won't work. In my expereince, and what I've seen and heard online, I hadn't heard anyone else discuss this topic, so I thought I'd put it out there. I said I wasn't happy with the answers I got from my first post, not with the answers I got from my Sifu. I am trying not to be "boxed-in" by my lineage/Sifu/Art or whatever. I honestly do want to hear all of your opinions, and I have a varying degree of agreement with alot of the Non-TWC posts. It was Ali's take on my comments that brought up my retort. I suggested that he (and you) were reading something into it that wasn't there. Like I admitted, this medium is easily misunderstood. You seem to get personal when someone doesn't agree with YOU. I will do my best to keep this amicable, as I DO appreciate all of your thoughts on this. Just becuase I question it doesn't mean I believe TWC is always right. I have a tremendous amount of respect for my first Sifu in the modified WC, (he may be the BEST martial artist I've ever seen) and it was only because I moved across the country that I ended up studying TWC. Don't make this political, that is NOT where I am coming from. Attitude seems to creep into this discussions WAY too easily. Are you a big guy Gray? I mean what size does someone have to be to be considered "big" compared to you? I am just asking, not prodding or instigating. I think alot of this is relative, a 5'4" woman might view this whole scenario differently, agreed?
"It is better to know thyself than show thyself"
Chris Gray
Thought this was interesting given the direction of the thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKkKR...eature=related
Now thats what I call attacking the attack!
我听见，我忘记；我看见，我记住；我做，我了解。
I hear, I forget; I see, I remember; I do, I understand.
Chris Gray
Exactly.
The only disagreement with me was when it was suggested that a Matador facing down a Bull and a Man facing another Man in a fight was not comparable within the context of this thread....and the fact that you and Phil both didnt advise facing down or stepping in to a larger opponent. There was no hostility or attitude there. We even elaborated on the fight or flight concept which was an interesting and appropriate developement to this thread. And it was Couch who followed up that comment. I didnt even reply. I had no reason to reply or be hostile. So why does he come with...
I wasnt even talking to him at that point.It's okay. He's not staying on topic. He's jumping around to have the ability to continue to argue with you. It's not you. Trust me.
I did disagree with CFT but there was no hostility or taking it personal there. From me or CFT. And in spite of what Couch has said...I've told you plenty about the Woo sytem and I bet you got some good info from me and everyone in this thread...as you have stated.
5'4" woman? Dont know. But a very particular 5'7" female that has taught me Kempo since July of 1994 continues to blow that scenario, and my big brown @$$ out of the water. Different art but same goals ultimately.
And yes..I am a very big guy.
Last edited by Graychuan; 08-21-2008 at 02:13 PM.
我听见，我忘记；我看见，我记住；我做，我了解。
I hear, I forget; I see, I remember; I do, I understand.
Banned
Thought this was interesting given the direction of the thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKkKR...eature=related
No tough cowards there, and talk about your “Lassie vs. Bruno”!
Ali Rahim.
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