Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[1bad65]

All kidding aside the Rebulicans should learn from the Democrats. They know deep down that they don't stand a chance in hell this election. They need to prop someone up for the future like the Dems did with Obama.

According the Democrats; the economy is a wreck, we pay record gas prices because of the Republicans, Iraq is a disaster, and our health care system is terrible to say the least. Yet Obama is running neck-and-neck with the Republican candidate. I think that says he is a pretty weak candidate myself.

[1bad65]

They will expand to accommodate the demand.

You forget the fact that Socialists have no idea of what the Law of Supply and Demand is.

[NJM]

Soooo.... what should we do with the ones who don't want it?

Kids who don't want an education?

I guess you could send them to hobbit school, in fairyland. Because they don't exist.

[bakxierboxer]

Kids who don't want an education?

I guess you could send them to hobbit school, in fairyland. Because they don't exist.

What world are you living in?
It's been quite a while since an education has been seen as universally desirable.
(US) English is also not universally seen as mandatory for advancement in society and/or the workplace.
Some folks put forth "alternatives" that are only marginally intelligible.

The gummint has been falling back onto "ESL" which largely doesn't seem to supplant whatever language immigrants originally used. There are large swaths of major population centers where signage is exclusively in those other languages.... effectively helping to distance, and further isolate, their own population from the mainstream.
OTOH, "happily" (for some (guess who?)), certain (biased?) demographic projections predict that the majority of the US population will one day be balkanized into various non-native enclaves of "whatever" "persuasion".

[MasterKiller]

Citizens already pay for education with their taxes. Vouchers would let them choose where their kids go.

Look at it this way; say I own a bar and I charge $6 for well drinks. The only catch is after you pay me your $6 I choose the drink you get whether you like it or not. FYI, it is Government mandated you have to go to my bar every day. That would really suck, wouldn't it?

So you want to start letting people decide which police departments to pay? How about fire departments? How about you only pay for the roads and street lights you actually use?

Public programs are intended to promote the general welfare.

If you can afford something better, then you are free to pay for it. But you still have an obligation to promote the general welfare of the society you benefit from.

Right, so married heterosexuals shouldn't receive benefits either. That is what you are saying, no? The state should not encourage anyone to marry.

You dodge this one?

[B-Rad]

According the Democrats; the economy is a wreck, we pay record gas prices because of the Republicans, Iraq is a disaster, and our health care system is terrible to say the least. Yet Obama is running neck-and-neck with the Republican candidate. I think that says he is a pretty weak candidate myself.

Actually, I'd say it's the strength of McCain (or the memory of McCain as an honest reformer) that keeps him even. Any other republican that was running would be pretty unacceptable. I suppose a good number of moderate democrats and independents hope the Bush @ss kissing has just been to make it through the Republican primary and keep support of the more fanatical unreasonable far right base (the evangelicals that got Bush elected). Take that out and remove the usual mindless divisive (and manipulative) talk of liberal this and leftest that from his supporters, and McCain wins in a landslide against anybody. someone with McCains experience in the military and in the legislature and with his reputation is really held back by the usual divisive party politics necessary to make it to the top of his own party.

[1bad65]

So you want to start letting people decide which police departments to pay? How about fire departments? How about you only pay for the roads and street lights you actually use?

You're being ridiculous. When you live in a city, you get the SAME fire and police protection no matter where in the city you live. However, public schools in the same city vary greatly. And it's always the inner city/minority area schools that fail. We just had a school shut down here in Austin for repeatedly failing the mandated tests (and the State gave them an extra year as well). Wanna take a guess what part of town it was in?

If you can afford something better, then you are free to pay for it. But you still have an obligation to promote the general welfare of the society you benefit from.

So the poor just get stuck then, right? While the rich get to choose what they want? The Democrats are ALWAYS for 'leveling the playing field', except on the voucher issue.......

Not dodging at all. The way it is now is fine. Even gay advocates admit that the system would be abused easily. So it would be ANOTHER Government benefit being abused that the taxpayers get hosed on. I'll take a pass on that.

[B-Rad]

How do voucher programs work? Also, weren't there a couple test cities under this program? Were they successful?

I know the basic idea... give vouchers to needy families from failing districts to seek better private education somewhere else. But I'm curious about how it's funded and how this affects public schools.

[GLW]

This is the same old mantra : Let the market place decide - Competition GOOD....

But what really happens:

OK, if you look at what I pay in my property taxes for School Taxes -
So...now I get a voucher for that and I go merrily down the road to a private school:

the private schools here run from $6000 per school year to around $18,000 per school year depending on what grade you are talking about - K-8 is around $6000 to $9500 while High school is from around $9000 to $18000....

Not to mention that there are always other fees and such with private....

So, I walk in with a voucher and they take - oh...$2000 off of the price... I still have a $4000 to $16000 bill.

So, if you can afford private school already, you just got a big tax break.... If not, you stay where you are....

Now, if you have more than one kid, your bill goes up but you do get a little discount in most private schools.

But it still boils down to being that the only people who get this break can already pretty much afford private schools anyway.

So...what happens...well those vouchers took money out of the public schools too...so the already strapped public school has even less money...and are left with the poorer students...

So we now have a totally second class set of public schools.

Personally, I have zero problem with paying school taxes and don't want a voucher. I would like to have it such that ANY money my household spends on education gets me a federal tax deduction. That would include college tuition when my second grader gets to that point...and would include a tax break for what I already pay for her private school.

But, the tax aspect has nothing to do with if she stays in private school or not...neither do vouchers...

If we would focus instead on improving what we have and actually making education a priority - as in putting money into it AND rewarding people who spend on education...things MIGHT get better.

[Mas Judt]

My property taxes allocated for the schools are only slightly lower than the private school tuition in my area. The private school does a substantially better job than the public school. It would be a no-brainer.

Competition also produces downward pressure on pricing. It's amazing how much you can get done when you don't have Uncle Sugar forking over the dough with no accountability.

[No_SuRReNDeR]

A tough fight to call indeed......... but I'd say it's a matter of who's fighting who and what stlye.

I think Obama's Tiger style is no match for Palin's Drunken fist. But McCains Xing Yi Chuan has not chance in heck against Biden's Yang style Tai chi.....Of course it is rumored that while in prison McCain learned Wu Song's Handcuff boxing and that alone could turn the tide of the match......

- X
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{---}

[NJM]

Of course it is rumored that while in prison McCain learned Wu Song's Handcuff boxing and that alone could turn the tide of the match......

Vovinam? As if that could stand up.

[BoulderDawg]

According the Democrats; the economy is a wreck, we pay record gas prices because of the Republicans, Iraq is a disaster, and our health care system is terrible to say the least. Yet Obama is running neck-and-neck with the Republican candidate. I think that says he is a pretty weak candidate myself.

Whatever......I still say that reguardless of the polls that barring major scandal McCain doesn't stand a chance. Deep down he knows this. I will say the if after all that has happened with the disaster that is the Bush Admin that if McCain does beat him then that will be a mandate for all of these good conservative ideals: Total ban on abortion, Handguns sold without any questions asked, Jim Crow laws back into effect, Billions spent on the war machine....By the end of McCain's second term Iraq will be a memory...the US will have moved on to probably a half different other countries.

[GLW]

Yet you did not refute my earlier claim...

YOUR taxes are only slightly lower than the private school tuition...

So...YOUR income level is What?

Do you have more than one child... guess what your school taxes are based on property not number of kids...so if you have 2 kids...you lose...

But, if you are like me, in a higher income bracket... as in I CAN afford private school for my kid... and do...but I would never expect YOU to subsidize me because I don't use the resource that is there. Kind of like me asking for a voucher for a fire department in my area because I think the one I am already paying for is too far away...

But I digress...

What happens to those who either have more kids in your area or are not in your income bracket..?

Competition only works where there is a true market...this is not one of those cases.

How about teachers...they get a better class of student in private schools...and usually lower pay and benefits......the exception may be for the elite of the elite...

[BoulderDawg]

You forget the fact that Socialists have no idea of what the Law of Supply and Demand is.

You seem to forget the fact that a school is not like a factory making widgets. You simply cannot increase production and turn out the 3X of the same propuct