Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[1bad65]

Again, if ACORN is so innocent why did Obama lie about his relationship with them?

[GLW]

and THAT is exactly what I was getting at.

With the programs like ACORN's getting people registered, the problems that arise are when Mickey Mouse means they have to review more registrations.

This is in stark contrast with what the GOP backed registration drives were doing:
That is,

(1) some were approaching people about registering. When they determined the person was NOT a Republican, the walked away. (this is rude behavior...but NOT illegal)

(2) some were found in Nevada and Oregon to be disposing of non-GOP registrations (this IS illegal)

But on top of this, there are more dirty tricks:

Some calls in states up for grabs where they are reminding people to go to the polls on November 14 (election day is November 4)

Some automated calls at 3 AM playing an advertisement for Obama (Obama's people do not have call machines working at that time of the night - this is probably on par with prank phone calls....so it could be illegal)

Then you have the new version of poll tax. Sorry...but I grew up in a Texas where there was a poll tax. If you were white, you could get it forgiven in most instances. All you had to do was have someone vouch for you. If you were black...no way...had to pay it. There WERE political operatives who would go out and pay a person's poll tax for their assurance that they would vote and vote for the person the operative wanted. This was done on both sides....

But, the new poll tax does not see color..only income and mobility. Many states are adding a requirement of a state issued driver's license or ID...which the state charges for...and no means to get such a thing for free if you can't afford it. So, if you have no need of a car, you still have to go to the DMV and get their ID. Those things cost almost as much as the driver's license. AND you have to get there...wait.... and so on.

This move - rather than providing alternative means of identity proof - My job accepts multiple versions of ID - BY LAW - means that lower income people (who also happen to be more likely to vote for a Democrat) will be less likely to register or show up to vote when they are registered.

Then you have challenges, caging, removing voters from the rolls...tens of thousands in Colorado alone....

And all being led typically by the GOP....

So...on one side you have registration issues with virtually no proof of VOTER FRAUD. On the other side, you have thousands of provable instances of valid voter being denied their right to vote.

One is definitely more un-American than the other... One person - one vote.... Gee...we thought it was great when that was a cry for equality in South Africa.

[GLW]

and prove that he 'lied' --and again, not some right wing rag...and that DOES include Faux News...

He was pretty clear about his representation of ACORN with the US Dept. of Justice over 13 years ago....

Obama IS a lawyer...and as such is VERY precise in his use of language. Whereas MOST people are VERY sloppy in their use of or understanding of what is said or written.

[Reality_Check]

Again, if ACORN is so innocent why did Obama lie about his relationship with them?

Why is it relevant? Evidence of actual voter fraud is scant. If there is little voter fraud, then your point is meaningless.

http://truthaboutfraud.org/

"The Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law is a non-partisan public policy and law institute that focuses on fundamental issues of democracy and justice. Our work ranges from voting rights to redistricting reform, from access to the courts to presidential power in the fight against terrorism. A singular institution—part think tank, part public interest law firm, part advocacy group—the Brennan Center combines scholarship, legislative and legal advocacy, and communications to win meaningful, measurable change in the public sector."

http://truthaboutfraud.org/pdf/TruthAboutVoterFraud.pdf

"Allegations of widespread voter fraud, however, often prove greatly exaggerated. It is easy to grab headlines with a lurid claim (“Tens of thousands may be voting illegally!”); the follow-up — when any exists — is not usually deemed newsworthy. Yet on closer examination, many of the claims of voter fraud amount to a great deal of smoke without much fire. The allegations simply do not pan out.

These inflated claims are not harmless. Crying “wolf ” when the allegations are unsubstantiated distracts attention from real problems that need real solutions. If we can move beyond the fixation on voter fraud, we will be able to focus on the real changes our elections need, from universal registration all the way down to sufficient parking at the poll site.

Moreover, these claims of voter fraud are frequently used to justify policies that do not solve the alleged wrongs, but that could well disenfranchise legitimate voters. Overly restrictive identification requirements for voters at the polls — which address a sort of voter fraud more rare than death by lightning — is only the most prominent example."

"Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/wa...n/12fraud.html

"The fiction that Democrats—especially black and Hispanic Democrats—steal elections has gained traction only since 2000. And that fervent belief has rapidly gone from a Bush administration side dish to its main course. This explains last year's firing of at least two U.S. attorneys for their inability to find vote-fraud cases to prosecute, as well as the takeover of the Justice Department's Voting Rights division—which once existed to expand voting rights, rather than constrain them—by myopic vote-fraud crusaders. But evidence of widespread vote fraud just hasn't materialized."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/138537

[BoulderDawg]

I guess we could make voting 100% fraud proof........Each poll is staffed by, at least three certified poll workers who independently check the credentials of each and every voter by retinal scans, finger prints and extensive background check and maybe even DNA before they are allowed to vote. Then when the citizen votes he/she votes on three forms. Each of these are handed to three seperate poll workers who records the vote immediately. At the end of the day if all three totals don't match then these polls workers are retained until the problem is solved....

Yep! Let's make voting fraud proof!

[BoulderDawg]

Why is it relevant? Evidence of actual voter fraud is scant. If there is little voter fraud, then your point is meaningless.

Well it looks as if Bad has his victory.....Obama lied!!!!!

Nobody seems to care except Bad and some of his Noecon friends but all the same...OBAMA LIED!!!!!!

Bad you can now start to celebrate!!!!

[1bad65]

and prove that he 'lied' --and again, not some right wing rag...and that DOES include Faux News...

He was pretty clear about his representation of ACORN with the US Dept. of Justice over 13 years ago....

My link was not a FoxNews link. You read it right? You saw the screen caps from Obama's own website, right? He lied, and he got caught.

I just want to know WHY he lied.

[1bad65]

Yep! Let's make voting fraud proof!

Well the Democrats in Ohio sure as hell didn't.

[1bad65]

Well it looks as if Bad has his victory.....Obama lied!!!!!

Nobody seems to care except Bad and some of his Noecon friends but all the same...OBAMA LIED!!!!!!

Bad you can now start to celebrate!!!!

It's not a victory. It's actually pathetic, this guy has a decent shot at winning and his own supporters can't figure out how is economic plan will work. They can't explain why he needed a felon to get a house. They give him a pass on following a pastor for 20 years who was a piece of ****. Yet they can't wait to vote for this guy. It's sad and unnerving.

I'm not celebrating at all. I'm actually quite fearful for the country if he gets elected.

[BoulderDawg]

I just want to know WHY he lied.

Don't you know?

Obama is evil. He's lies all the time, pals with terrorists 24 hours a day and drinks the blood of virgins at night.

His lying is part of the evil plan to become president then kill each and every American in the name of Allah.

[BoulderDawg]

I'm actually quite fearful for the country if he gets elected.

Back to that I see.

As I said my personal life will change little no matter who's elected president. I fear no politician.

As you said, you are afraid. Do you think that if Obama is elected that he will harm your family in some way?

[monji112000]

last poll I saw it was 18 points or some crap like that.
Not that I put much stock in polls, just find it interesting.
Saw the debate last night, Obama seems to be better at the debate thing than John.

If you take into account the margin of error and actual details of how , were, who they polled you won't put much stock in them. They are mostly used to sway people. I can't understand why though.. why do people vote for the guy who they think will win... you don't get a prize if he/she does.

I watched all of the debates.. well they called them debates. I didn't really see any debating going on. more of same talking points , if one person said something the other didn't like he said it wasn't true. that was about it... nobody picked apart any of the others ideas, history or policies. Although I'm not voting for him, John could have gone through his policies better. Not sure how anyone can call that a debate. I would have rather one hour of one topic, back and forth. Every detail of their moronic ideas talked about.

John has yet to really go into the craziness of hussein's health care idea. If you actually stopped to think about what he says, really think about what will happen down the road... nobody would vote for hussein. I wouldn't, and I wouldn't for for John Mccain. Does anyone really listen to these people?

[monji112000]

Do you think that if Obama is elected that he will harm your family in some way?

Yes, and If Mccain is elected... YES.

who is worse... not sure.

[Reality_Check]

It's not a victory. It's actually pathetic, this guy has a decent shot at winning and his own supporters can't figure out how is economic plan will work. They can't explain why he needed a felon to get a house. They give him a pass on following a pastor for 20 years who was a piece of ****. Yet they can't wait to vote for this guy. It's sad and unnerving.

I'm not celebrating at all. I'm actually quite fearful for the country if he gets elected.

Maybe it's because the Bush Adminstration has damaged the Republican brand with an unpopular war, a tanking economy (whether it is George Bush's fault or not, he will be blamed), politicization of the Justice Department, illegal spying on US citizens, torture, etc.

John McCain, being a Republican, is seen as an extension of those policies.

His prescriptions for solving the economic crisis have changed repeatedly, sometimes from one day to the next.

His healthcare plan would arguably make the healthcare situation in this country worse. Plus, it would pretty much eliminate employer-sponsored health plans by taxing them. $2,500 ($5,000 for a family) is not going to buy a lot of coverage.

He wants to privatize Social Security, and thus make more risky, a very popular program.

His belligerent, and in some cases incoherent, foreign policy would do little to repair the reputation of the US. For example, would purposefully antagonizing Russia by threatening to kick them out of the G8 help our national interests? Especially when he wants to negotiate a new arms control treaty with them.

He wants an "across the board" spending freeze, while spending $300 billion to buy bad mortgages from banks.

He is proposing to balance the budget (in the midst of a financial crisis) while enacting huge tax cuts.

There is a reason he is behind in the polls, and it's not because Senator Obama is the anti-Christ. It's because people aren't buying what he's selling. That is why he has gone 100% negative in his campaign.

[SimonM]

You hear that Sidney thinks he can end dependence on Venezuelan and Middle Eastern oil in the USA by just buying it all from Canada. Furthermore Sidney believes that if NAFTA is renegotiated Canada will say (and I quote) "Yeah, and we’ll sell our oil to China."

This ignores the fact that the Bush administration spent the first four years of their term doing nothing but simultaneously applying WTO and NAFTA to try and force Canada to export resources like water while applying tarriffs and financial support to domestic softwood lumber deliberately designed to undercut the competitiveness of the Canadian softwood lumber industry.

As a result, many, many Canadians would LOVE to renegotiate NAFTA.

Now let's look at Canadian oil for a sec.

1) We have the second largest reserve of oil in the world... after Saudi Arabia... and the USA trades heavily with Saudi Arabia as it is... and still needs oil from Venezuela, Kuwait, Iraq, Iran, and Canada as things stand right now. So first off Sidney is naiive to think that Canada alone has the oil reserves necessary to meet US demand.

2) The majority of Canada's oil reserve is tar sand. This is a mix of bitumen and granulated earth. It's expensive! It takes the equivalent of one barrell of oil to generate two barrells of oil from tar sand. The environmental footprint of tar sand exploitation is also alarming. This is one of the reasons we haven't exploited the tar sands that much. At the present rate of exploitation the estimated reserve would take about 400 years to tap.

The environmental cost of tar sand exploitation is high. The most efficient method is open pit mining which significantly disrupts the land and water system. Furthermore it takes between 2-4.5 cubic meters of water to process 1 cubic meter of bitumen. That means for the equivalent of 1 cubic meter of crude oil it costs 3 1/3 - 7.5 cubic meters of water based on the most optimistic estimates.

It would take 3.4 - 7.65 trillion cubic meters of water (that's more than 899 trillion gallons at minimum and as much as 2.023 quadrillion* gallons at maximum) to fully exploit the reserves of bitumen. Now that means that exploitation of the 173 billion barrels worth of exploitable oil would cost 86.5 billion barrels of oil...

So... 899-2023 trillion gallons of water, 86.5 billion barrels of oil... yeah Sidney, just buy all your oil from Canada becaue, you know, the USA can really afford that.

* yes quadrillion is a number - it means thousand-trillion. I looked it up.

Oh... and here's the real kicker... EVERY barrel of tar sands oil requires the generation of 80 kg of greenhouse gasses as a consequence of processing.

At present rates of processing the tar sands represent 3.4% of canada's greenhouse gas emissions.

The USA uses 7.665 billion barrels of oil a year. We presently produce just a hair under 411 million barrels per year from the tar sands... this is our main untapped source of oil. Meeting USA demand would require multiplying production by 18 times! That means generating enough oil for the USA alone would constitute 61.2% of our current emissions... and we have a kyoto obligation to REDUCE emissions.