Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[KC Elbows]

Yeah, that Obama guy is a real moderate on taxes, spending, and abortion.

Would you be able to distinguish a moderate if one was put before you? Could you name off the last two elections you put a fiscal conservative in the White house?

Cutting taxes does not, on its own, infer any sort of conservatism, if what else is being done with the budget isn't conservative.

In relations to earlier statements, people argue against taxing the wealthy as though it were wrong, everyone gets taxed, and the rich certainly don't have to pay the percentage of their earnings that most people do, so how making it slightly more fair is wrong I don't know. Additionally, fairly taxing across the boards does not mean that business will dry up, it is only if it becomes unfair or too difficult to do business. Even under current conditions, the idea that everything will go over to China if US businesses shouldered a fair tax burden is silly, there are whole other problems with doing business in China that make it so that companies will not want to be headquartered out there, plus the relative reliability of the US market, especially since those companies are established here.

Additionally, I'm curious which of these big companies that might leave could still exist away from US corporate welfare, something they'll have a hard time replacing.

[1bad65]

Could you name off the last two elections you put a fiscal conservative in the White house?

Ronald Reagan and John F Kennedy. 1980, 1984 and 1960 respectively.

See how easy it is to answer questions in a debate, maybe NJM and B-Rad could try it one day.

[1bad65]

Additionally, fairly taxing across the boards does not mean that business will dry up, it is only if it becomes unfair or too difficult to do business. Even under current conditions, the idea that everything will go over to China if US businesses shouldered a fair tax burden is silly, there are whole other problems with doing business in China that make it so that companies will not want to be headquartered out there, plus the relative reliability of the US market, especially since those companies are established here.

Additionally, I'm curious which of these big companies that might leave could still exist away from US corporate welfare, something they'll have a hard time replacing.

It's not just the taxes, it's all the regulations they have to deal with. If you watched the Olympics, it's not too hard to figure out the Communist Chinese obviously do not have near the environmental laws we do. Their air makes Southern California's look great! It's also quite pathetic companies in the United States of America find it cheaper to do business in A COMMUNIST COUNTRY rather than in their own country.

And yes, many jobs are lost to China. I work in the high-tech industry. We invented the term 'outsourcing'. So I think I know a thing or two on the subject.

Intel, Motorola/Freescale and Wal-Mart are examples of big companies that have moved alot of jobs over to China from the US. That corporate welfare line is garbage, it's just a talking point liberals use to fool morons into thinking taxing and regulating 'Big Business' at ridiculous levels is a great idea.

[NJM]

See how easy it is to answer questions in a debate, maybe NJM and B-Rad could try it one day.

Hey, it's not my fault if you embrace a logical fallacy!

Correlation does not imply causation!

It is irrelevant how many terrorist attacks have happened in the US, unless you can directly link the phenomenon of less terrorist attacks to Bush's actions!

[1bad65]

It is irrelevant how many terrorist attacks have happened in the US, unless you can directly link the phenomenon of less terrorist attacks to Bush's actions!

Are you really this blind and stupid? Or are you trolling?

[The Willow Sword]

How Many IRAQI terrorists have attacked the USA? Answer :NONE
How Many IRAQI terrorists were on the planes that crashed into our WTC's Answer:NONE.

Sure you can make the argument that we havent had any terrorist attacks on US soil since we invaded Iraq. But is it a direct result of us Invading Iraq? I dont think so. I think the answer to that is that AFTER the 9-11 attacks we finally pulled our pants up and started becoming more aware of security threats. However it hasnt stopped wacked out college students from going on a shooting rampage,or any of the other "attacks" that have happened by American citizens(non muslim/arab) since 9-11.

Fundies like to make the excuse that, well we need to fight em over there so that they dont come here. well, if they are already here as the Bush administration claims then why havent they done anything to us Since 9-11? It certainly is not because the administration is doing illegal wire taps and thwarting plans at every turn. Believe me if these "terrorist sleeper cells" were wanting to attack us on our own soil they would have done it already. 9-11 would have been the incentive that the sleeper cells needed to start wreaking havoc on the US. So i think the whole excuse that Cons and repubs are making is pure and utter BULLSH!T!!

As for paying Taxes, Despite what you've heard, we actually pay more "taxes" than France or any European country -- and get none of the benefits they receive.

The only reason Social Security is running out of money is because people who make over $102,000 a year pay NO social security tax on what they make over $102,000 (if they did, we'd have enough money in Social Security for the next 75 years!).

Peace,TWS

[1bad65]

Iraq was known to be involved in the training of terrorists and Saddam himself boasted how he paid suicide bomber's families for the bomber's actions. So don't even say Iraq was not into terrorism.

And we all know Afghanistan was. And still NO ATTACKS on US soil since 9/11.

Even you liberals have to admit that Reagan and GW Bush handled terrorism alot more effectively than Carter and Clinton. They actually did something about it! Imagine that.

[1bad65]

As for paying Taxes, Despite what you've heard, we actually pay more "taxes" than France or any European country -- and get none of the benefits they receive.

You really live in your own little world, don't you?

Don't worry, if Obama gets elected we can all pay at least $7 a gallon gas and be more like those Europeans who have obviously solved every economic problem known to man.

[The Willow Sword]

into their fundamentalist mentally ill religious BS.On their own people (just like we are only not as extreme, or are we?) . Did they come over here?(they meaning iraqis) No they didnt. Yet another excuse that says well its better that we took saddam out now lest he do something rash to the USA. and actually he WAS about to do something rash to the USA. He was about to trade his oil in EURO dollars instead of US Dollars. We just couldnt allow that now could we? oh yeah forgot, he tried to have Bush Senior wacked. almost succeeded. well i guess a vendetta is about as good of any reason to invade a country and turn it upside down and bomb thousands of innocent civilians.

I tend to think a bit more detailed in that if someone tried to kill my dad i would go after the individual rather than his family and his relatives and his country and people etc etc. Seems like Italian Mob mentality ,if you ask me, that Bush and his cronies are exhibiting.

i also tend to think a little bit more focused on who it actually was that attacked us. Saudi's were on those planes and one syrian. But we are "friends" with those people. If we are such good friends then why in the hell did they attack us like that? and WHY didnt the Saudi government not do as much to quell their own findamentalist "terrorists"? well maybe its because THEY CELEBRATE AND SUPPORT their muslim radical leaders. Just like WE support our radical evangelical leaders. Maybe thats why we have so much in comon with Saudi arabia. or maybe its oil.

Peace,TWS

[SimonM]

I remember when this forum purported to be about martial arts. So I propose we invite McCain and Obama to a cage match.

Fight to submission, winner gets to be president.

Obama's younger and fitter but McCain has been tortured before and might have a higher pain threshold. It's be more entertaining than reading all this yawn inspiring back and forth between deluded conservatives who believe Obama is too far to the left and deluded liberals who believe Obama is not a conservative.

I'll give him this: he's good on gun laws and abortion. But seriously, the guy is not anything any real leftist would call left wing.

<ducks>

[CLFLPstudent]

Iraq was known to be involved in the training of terrorists

The terrorist camps were inside of the no-fly zone. If we knew they were training there, we could have bombed them at will with no threat to our airplanes.

and Saddam himself boasted how he paid suicide bomber's families for the bomber's actions. So don't even say Iraq was not into terrorism.

So does Saudi Arabia. Why no war there?

And we all know Afghanistan was. And still NO ATTACKS on US soil since 9/11.

Even you liberals have to admit that Reagan and GW Bush handled terrorism alot more effectively than Carter and Clinton. They actually did something about it! Imagine that.

GW has made the region MORE unstable. As bad as Hussein was, he was hated by the Islamic Fundamentalists as much as we are. He kept them in check - how many suicide bombings happened in Iraq while he was in power? Now it is a calling for all of these idiots to come blow themselves up for Allah or whatever. We should have finished the job in Afghanistan and probably Pakistan, and gotten the hell home. Our armed forces are not trained to be, and aren't meant to be policemen.

[1bad65]

The Saudi Arabian government pays suicide bomber's families? That's news to me. Care to provide proof of that.....

As for the danger Saddam posed, just listen to Joe Biden:

"Well, the point is, it turned out they didn't, but everyone in the world thought he had them. The weapons inspectors said he had them. He catalogued - they catalogued them. This was not some, some Cheney, you know, pipe dream. This was, in fact, catalogued."

[MasterKiller]

The majority of suicide bombers are Saudi.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/100/story/18791.html

[CLFLPstudent]

Here is one article : http://www.spiegel.de/international/...465438,00.html, but of course the 'official' word from the Saudi's is denial.

Another:http://www.jewishworldreview.com/070...insurance.php3

About channeling monies through the US, some of which originates in Saudi Arabia, to families of suicide bombers.

Here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/659113/posts a woman tells of getting checks from Iraq and Saudi Arabia

Here:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../12/bn.17.html
A transcript of a CNN broadcast about a telethon Saudi Arabia had to raise money for suicide bomber families

Here are some examples.... Don't tell me you think the Saudi's are not involved in this whole shithole of a mess.

[NJM]

Are you really this blind and stupid? Or are you trolling?

How am I being blind or stupid?