Traditional 18 Forms

[mantid1]

Punching, kicking and joint locking didnt come from mantis either...it was borrowed from other styles to become mantis. Still punching, kicking and joint locking? Yes, but its own disticnt style.

I would like to think that the mantis practitiners would have a little insight or views of how the basic weapons can be applied as thier own particular style would apply them.....not 18 but at least the basic weapons.

I am not saying all mantis styles are like this....many probably do carbon copy forms...and it that case they are dance routines. I think Tainan was actually talking about fighting techniques...not routines.

So, if all styles after shaolin cant have thier own philosophy....how can shaolin?

We have to trace it all the way back to when the first cave man poked his foe in the eye with a stick, hit him over the head with a club, cut his throat with a sharp piece of flint or stabbed him with his spear.

We should look up the guys on the Geico comercials and study the original martial art. I wonder if they are into belts now?

[MightyB]

Mantid- don't know what you're trying to prove. The sets may or may not be unique to Mantis - the methodology behind the applications of those weapons are unique to mantis. The weapons sets are part of learning Mantis.

Often I feel that when people try to argue to have things ommitted from the "curriculem" it's because they are insecure with the fact that they don't know those things and therefore they don't have the complete system. You don't have to know everything in the system to start teaching- but a major part of your personal goals should be to try and learn as much about the system as possible and to be honest with yourself and your students in saying that there's much to be learned in Mantis and you don't have it all.


On a side note:

Just read Tainan's article - good article.

The short sticks that he's referring to in the article are taught as the form "Cern Gon" (shortened name and spelling is phonetic Cantonese). They are heavy - the video he associated is a two person drill that looks to be strongly based on the movements of Lok Hop Cern Dao (a double saber form). Cern Gon and Cern Dao are very different in terms of movement. True Cern Gon are heavy and use a special coordination of the whole body in their movement and cannot be swung at the rate that Cern Dao.

[mantid1]

I wasnt trying to prove anything. I just believe that an individual style or master could possibly have their own theory or method of using a weapon that may be just a little different than the people had three generations before.

I did discover something. I discovered why I stopped visiting forums.

Ill let the forum masters work everything out for themselves....Ill just continue to promote the CMA, teaching students and let the the world of "forum martial artists" continue without me.

[MightyB]

the point is that all of the mantis concepts are expressed in application- So Fot, Bo Fot, Sun Yin, Soft to defeat the hard / using hard to kill, attacking left then right, up and down, cats chasing dogs, sensitivity, clinging, on and on and on ---- every theory that's in Mantis applications is the same in how the weapons are used.

[Redfish]

I'd like to chime in on the are there 'mantis weapons' thing ...

Although I don't need to really add anything because ... argghh, agreeing with Jake again ... 3H said it pretty clearly in post #16. Also Mi Hou Tao.

The '18 weapons of China' were available at my teacher's school (our shigong). Then, when he was in his second phase of training, Mantis was in the morning, so he got to train all the evenings in the Singapore Jingwu with a great teacher Chia Shue Foy - basically rounding out and perfecting said weapons.

I'm no master or teacher, but the only thing 'Mantis' I see in those weapons forms is the occaisional mantis claw. But if you look at other clubs doing the same thing, they just use the gou shou, hooking hand, which is just the same meaning.

I don't want to be dismissive, but I think you can see much of the same principals, basics and stances across all 'shaolin kung fu'. I guess it's kind of tiring to argue the toss about it though. Reminds me of a funny quote from one teacher I know: "I used to tell everyone that kung fu is mainly the same, now I just say it's all different".

So yeah, go back to post #16 of you've jumped in at the latest page.

Also, I guess there's always the possibility that there are a bunch of 'Mantis Weapons' that I don't know about. Would love to see them on a vid if anyone can direct me to a link.

[MightyB]

Also, I guess there's always the possibility that there are a bunch of 'Mantis Weapons' that I don't know about. Would love to see them on a vid if anyone can direct me to a link.

http://www.martialartsmart.net/4543.html

http://www.martialartsmart.net/kf200148.html Read Gene's article...

[Three Harmonies]

Redfish... agreeing with Jake
Thanks bro.
Jake