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Thread: What do you think of Wing Chun in Sanshou competitions?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund View Post
    Who said San Shou was straight up wing chun? No one!

    It's called cross training...
    Original posting that started this thread:

    What do you think of Wing Chun in Sanshou competitions?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here's a clip from Beijing 2008, where an International Wushu and Sanshou Competition was promoted alongside the Olympic Games

    http://www.iwuf.org/news_video_1.asp?id=404

    I've never been one for competitions, but I've followed the development of Wushu and it's proposed Olympic status. I can see why so many students would benefit from training to compete in Taolu, Dulien and Sanshou, so isn't the Olympics where we should be looking towards for our future generations?

    Sanshou Competitions are already established and present a decent enough platform for Wing Chun fighters to enter, surely?

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    What do you think of Wing Chun in Sanshou competitions?
    I think San Shou competitions are a wonderful testbed for martial artists.

    If the only exposure someone has to a San Shou environment is at a tournament, though... what's the point?

    I say, get a few people in class trained up as judges and refs; Get some AIBA approved equipment, for maximum safety; and have your own in-house sessions. Dedicate at least one class a week to San Shou sparring, and one class a month to San Shou proper. That way, there's a possibility of actually learning to express the concepts of your own specific art within San Shou rules. No real in-house San Shou means no real knowledge of the environment. That's been the biggest drawback of Wing Chun and other arts... they don't have in-house San Shou. Only pseudo San Shou, often with light contact and no throws.

    San Shou is a training tool, not a style in and of itself. Use the tool to train, and you will get results.
    "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own." -Cicero

  3. #48
    Original posting that started this thread:
    ..
    ..
    I fail to see where that says San Shou is WC.

    It was a question: "What do you think of Wing Chun in Sanshou competitions?"

    Andrew N, punchdrunk, myself and others said you need to adapt to compete. No one said San Shou is WC.

    You and Terence seem to be trying to justify not cross-training. i.e. You pay lip-service to kickboxing saying it's good skills but when it comes to actually learning some by participating in comps or training with others in that format, you don't want to.

    There is long range techniques in San Shou. So what? Learn some.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund View Post
    I fail to see where that says San Shou is WC.

    It was a question: "What do you think of Wing Chun in Sanshou competitions?"

    Andrew N, punchdrunk, myself and others said you need to adapt to compete. No one said San Shou is WC.

    You and Terence seem to be trying to justify not cross-training. i.e. You pay lip-service to kickboxing saying it's good skills but when it comes to actually learning some by participating in comps or training with others in that format, you don't want to.

    There is long range techniques in San Shou. So what? Learn some.

    Wow Ed! You really need to get over yourself! The original post asked about WING CHUN in San Shou comps. It didn't ask about adaptations or modifications of Wing Chun. There is absolutely nothing wrong with cross-training and using approachs other than Wing Chun. But if you are doing most of your fighting on the outside....it ain't Wing Chun! That was the point, and hence back to the original question in the post that started the whole thread. I never said San Shou is Wing Chun. Terence never said San Shou is Wing Chun. No one ever said there is anything wrong with kickboxing. But kickboxing is not Wing Chun. Can you follow that logic?

  5. #50
    I don't think Wing Chun Kuen is a sport. It is a supreme cruel martial art. If one of the competitors use Wing Chun completely there would be casualties, it is inevitable...

  6. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Wow Ed! You really need to get over yourself! The original post asked about WING CHUN in San Shou comps. It didn't ask about adaptations or modifications of Wing Chun. There is absolutely nothing wrong with cross-training and using approachs other than Wing Chun. But if you are doing most of your fighting on the outside....it ain't Wing Chun! That was the point, and hence back to the original question in the post that started the whole thread. I never said San Shou is Wing Chun. Terence never said San Shou is Wing Chun. No one ever said there is anything wrong with kickboxing. But kickboxing is not Wing Chun. Can you follow that logic?
    That's the "logic" that keeps WC people from doing comps.

    "It ain't WC" == "Don't want to do it"

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Achilles1987 View Post
    I don't think Wing Chun Kuen is a sport. It is a supreme cruel martial art. If one of the competitors use Wing Chun completely there would be casualties, it is inevitable...
    Counterexamples:

    Cheung v Boztepe
    Draheim v Mazza
    Asbel Cancio v Dave Beneteau
    David Levicki (I think) v Rickson Gracie
    Bruce Lee v Wong Jack Man
    Any number of rooftop fights in HK vs Choy Li Fut guys

    If WC is so deadly, where are all the corpses buried and why aren't the people involved doing hard time in maximum security?
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  8. #53
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    But kickboxing is not Wing Chun.
    But there is some commonality ... opinions vary on how similar or different the two are, and where the boundaries lie. IMHO you feel WC is more restricted than I do, FWIW.

    The original post asked about WING CHUN in San Shou comps. It didn't ask about adaptations or modifications of Wing Chun.
    No qualification was made in the original post regarding "pure" or "adapted" in the original post, nor did it place the consideration of Wing Chun plus X, Y and/or Z out of bounds.

    It sounds like we all agree WC is of limited value in San Shou comps unless you adapt it or add stuff to it, or forget it and kickbox. BFD.

    Wow Ed! You really need to get over yourself!
    IMO #1 contender for needing to get over himself is T. Others also perhaps (where's that mirror?), but I'm not sure Edmund is among them ...
    Last edited by anerlich; 09-17-2008 at 09:11 PM.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
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  9. #54
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by anerlich View Post
    But there is some commonality ... opinions vary on how similar or different the two are, and where the boundaries lie. IMHO you feel WC is more restricted than I do, FWIW.
    +1

    If one's understanding is limited to shapes then that is all they are ever going to see.

    Knowing the concepts behind so called WC techniques is fundamental to knowing how to express and apply these same concepts to other so called "non-WC" techniques.

    There are no restictions... no rules in fighting... just inside the box, and outside the box for the WC expression.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiao3 Meng4 View Post
    I think San Shou competitions are a wonderful testbed for martial artists...
    ... San Shou is a training tool, not a style in and of itself. Use the tool to train, and you will get results.
    My thoughts exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by anerlich View Post
    It sounds like we all agree WC is of limited value in San Shou comps unless you adapt it or add stuff to it, or forget it and kickbox. BFD.
    I guess I was looking for a discussion that asks, what would be a good example of 'Wing Chun Sanshou'?

    It's not how we add something, or takeaway, attack inside our outside, it's how we demonstrate skilled Wing Chun in a Sanshou environment.

    Regardless of what you face, Wing Chun is Wing Chun after all isn't it?
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  11. #56
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    what would be a good example of 'Wing Chun Sanshou'?
    Perhaps you should Google 'Wing Chun Sanshou'?

    I did, but I wouldn't want to blunt the thrill of discovery for you.

    Wing Chun is Wing Chun after all isn't it?
    Apparently not. We all seem to be at odds about where WC ends and Glorified Kickboxing (TM) or MMA begin.

    Also, Wing Chun != Sanshou.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
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  12. #57
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    Here are a couple of clips of what wing chun generally looks like in san shou competition!

    http://podcast.blog.webs-tv.net/m/722344

    http://podcast.blog.webs-tv.net/m/722334

    In order to apply wing chun in san shou competition, one would generally have to apply the WC principles and concepts at long range to generate power.The gloves used in these compititions will muffle wc short range power turning your short range strikes into pushes rather than fa jing.

  13. #58
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    Who was the one doing W.C.?
    http://www.facebook.com/sifumcilwrath
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    There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret..

  14. #59
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    Stonecrusher wrote:

    Who was the one doing W.C.?

    ---I couldn't tell in either clip! I guess they have "adapted" their Wing Chun so well to San Sau competition so that it is unrecognizable!



    Lonetiger wrote:

    Regardless of what you face, Wing Chun is Wing Chun after all isn't it?

    ---If those clips are supposed to be representative of Wing Chun in San Sau competition, then the answer is....evidently not!!! But then, since Ed is supposed to be the paragon of virtue, I guess I just need to get over myself!

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Stonecrusher wrote:

    Who was the one doing W.C.?

    ---I couldn't tell in either clip! I guess they have "adapted" their Wing Chun so well to San Sau competition so that it is unrecognizable!



    Lonetiger wrote:

    Regardless of what you face, Wing Chun is Wing Chun after all isn't it?

    ---If those clips are supposed to be representative of Wing Chun in San Sau competition, then the answer is....evidently not!!! But then, since Ed is supposed to be the paragon of virtue, I guess I just need to get over myself!

    My point also.Why bother with wing Chun if you can't even use it? just train San Shou which I guess is some kind of generic kung-fu.By the way those fighters stink.
    http://www.facebook.com/sifumcilwrath
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    There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret..

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