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Thread: Ideas to work on stamina

  1. #16
    Additionally - If you look at the stats for one of boxing biggest matches - Cotto Vs. Margarito - You'll find Margarito threw roughly about 90 punches per round. That anaerobic exertion to punch takes a fraction of a section, but giving you the benefit of the doubt, and saying that the anaerobic exertion last for an entire second - That's still only half of the round. The other half, a minute 30, is all aerobic. Thats 50% for the fighter at the top of the Welterweight division, Cotto threw roughly 60 punches per round. Don't expect anyone heavier than him to come even close to that many punches thrown per round, as Marg did.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by JGTevo View Post
    If someone can provide a scientific explanation on how boxing, fighting, etc. is even 50% or more anaerobic I'd love to hear it.
    That would be very dependent on the fighter.


    Generally an Anaerobic exercise is characterized by a short burst of intense exertion. This would be for example, a punch. This is not, for example, the energy needed to retract the punch, the energy needed to evade or defend, feint, or the energy needed to move around the opponent.
    Now YOU are re-defining what you previously categorized as "attack".
    You seem to be limiting it to nothing except striking/punching.... and a single one, at that.


    If you have a logical, scientifically verifiable response I'd love to hear that, instead of your poorly thought out sarcasm.
    It WAS an "honest question" based on your definition as posted.
    (ok, maybe there was a tinge of sarcasm that happily accrued to the simplest form of query)
    Last edited by bakxierboxer; 09-24-2008 at 02:04 AM.

  3. #18
    Now YOU are re-defining what you previously categorized as "attack".
    You seem to be limiting it to nothing except striking/punching.... and a single one, at that.
    You don't need to limit it to striking(and the punch was used as an example), but can you show me an anaerobic way to do any of the things I've mentioned? Certain defenses in some cases, but those are uncommon. Grappling may have a greater need for anaerobic conditioning, but unless I am missing something, can you tell me what system teaches an anaerobic method of footwork, evasive body movement, etc.?

    There is, without a doubt, a great deal of both aerobic and anaerobic conditioning required for MMA and Boxing, and by extension, fighting.
    Last edited by JGTevo; 09-24-2008 at 02:12 AM.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by JGTevo View Post
    You don't need to limit it to striking(and the punch was used as an example), but can you show me an anaerobic way to do any of the things I've mentioned?.....
    can you tell me what system teaches an anaerobic method of footwork, evasive body movement, etc.?
    "Most" Hakka short-hand systems.... SPM seems to me to be a fair example.

    Also see: http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?...obic%20&gwp=16

    "Applying to exercise: more intense than can be maintained in balance with oxygen intake, aerobic pathways being insufficient to supply energy at the required rate (though they always contribute as well) — as in a 200-metre sprint."

    Additionally, there are sequences within H'ung Kuen and most other southern TCMA that are meant to be practiced/done in that manner.

    In use/application, it is again dependent on the fighter.

  5. #20
    I have experience in Jook Lum SPM and I understand how much is anaerobic. However when it comes to fighting, it's one of those systems untested in modern times. Fighting can be done more anaerobically than aerobically, absolutely. But that's theoretical. Theoretically, in most systems the fight should end in a few seconds. Theoretically I could end a fight without using aerobic or anaerobic conditioning, with Systema's no touch knockout(ugh..), or Derren Brown's mental trick of a no-touch punch(which is actually legitimate for susceptible people)... But when it comes to stamina, not only do the majority of systems rely on both aerobic and anaerobic conditioning but also the entirety of those tested.

    You could say that now that I'm changing or narrowing the definition - However when I spoke of how much anaerobic and aerobic conditioning is necessary, It was regarding what is not only most widely used but also widely tested to work in a real situation.


    "Applying to exercise: more intense than can be maintained in balance with oxygen intake, aerobic pathways being insufficient to supply energy at the required rate (though they always contribute as well) — as in a 200-metre sprint."
    Not really sure why you posted this? It basically says that aerobic conditioning contributes but is insufficient for anaerobic exercise...


    In use/application, it is again dependent on the fighter.
    I completely agree. Some fighters are able to conserve energy incredibly well, such as counter-fighters.. other fighters have several more boundaries that affect their stamina, such as performance anxiety.

  6. #21
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    A few things:

    Tabata protocol = 170% VO2 max, that is Tabata, unless you are there, what you are doing is moderate HIIT, true HIIT is over the 100% mark, something that CAN'T be done for more that 20 seconds at a pop and needs a 2:1 ratio ( 20 seconds on 10 seconds off of NO activity).
    All the studies that show the uber-awesomness of HIIT usually bring up the Tabata results but for some reason forget to mention that way they got them.

    Moderate HIIT is what 99% of all people that do HIIT, do.

    As for boxing being Anerobic of aerobic or both, it is both, but obivoulsly more anerobic than aerobic, it is, depending on the sport- 3 minutes on, 1 minute off, or 2 minutes on 1 minute off.
    Notice the aforementioned 2:1 ratio and the 3:1 ratio?
    Typical HIIT.
    Lets not forget the explosivness of boxing, another anerobic trait,
    Pretty much all modern boxers and sport trainers have acknowledged the majority of MA as more anerobic than aerobic.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by JGTevo View Post
    I have experience in Jook Lum SPM and I understand how much is anaerobic.
    Then what IS the origin of your questions?


    However when it comes to fighting, it's one of those systems untested in modern times.
    Who'd you learn Jook Lum SPM from?


    Fighting can be done more anaerobically than aerobically, absolutely. But that's theoretical.
    Let's make up our minds here!
    It either "can be done more anaerobically" (and it's an "absolute") or "that's theoretical".


    Theoretically, in most systems the fight should end in a few seconds.
    That's a good theory.... it even works that way more times than not.


    Theoretically I could end a fight without using aerobic or anaerobic conditioning, with Systema's no touch knockout(ugh..), or Derren Brown's mental trick of a no-touch punch(which is actually legitimate for susceptible people)...
    I'd say that those are more like "hypotheticals".


    But when it comes to stamina, not only do the majority of systems rely on both aerobic and anaerobic conditioning but also the entirety of those tested.
    Stamina has it's place.


    You could say that now that I'm changing or narrowing the definition - However when I spoke of how much anaerobic and aerobic conditioning is necessary, It was regarding what is not only most widely used but also widely tested to work in a real situation.
    It looks to me that your "real situation" is actually a "non-real situation".... competitive/ring sport-fighting.


    Not really sure why you posted this? It basically says that aerobic conditioning contributes but is insufficient for anaerobic exercise...
    More or less pointing out that aerobic conditioning can help/aid in anaerobic activities, but cannot achieve the same results on its own.


    I completely agree. Some fighters are able to conserve energy incredibly well, such as counter-fighters.. other fighters have several more boundaries that affect their stamina, such as performance anxiety.
    Conserving energy is a requirement to "go the distance".... which assumes that there IS a distance to go.

    "counter fighting" is more or less the definition of "self-defense".

    An "adrenaline dump" is often mistaken for "performance anxiety".

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    A few things:
    HI!

    Nice to see you're still about!
    (got tired of "keeping your own counsel"?)

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakxierboxer View Post
    HI!

    Nice to see you're still about!
    (got tired of "keeping your own counsel"?)
    LOL !
    Well, I got back from "way out east" and have more time and more patience.
    I don't know if that is a good thing though.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    LOL !
    Well, I got back from "way out east" and have more time and more patience.
    You actually WENT somewhere?


    I don't know if that is a good thing though.
    I guess we'll all be finding out now, won't we?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakxierboxer View Post
    You actually WENT somewhere?




    I guess we'll all be finding out now, won't we?
    Was in Beijing for the Olympics and then went to Taiwan and Macao for a bit.
    Roots and all that
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Was in Beijing for the Olympics and then went to Taiwan and Macao for a bit.
    Roots and all that
    OH?
    Lucky you!
    I was wondering what you'd been doing in "Yurp"....
    which is what I think of as being to the east of North America.

    Get any good rooting done?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakxierboxer View Post
    OH?
    Lucky you!
    I was wondering what you'd been doing in "Yurp"....
    which is what I think of as being to the east of North America.

    Get any good rooting done?

    Its good to remember things we forget.
    Its also good to see that the path we are on is not THAT far out of whack, LOL !
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post

    Its good to remember things we forget.
    Not into Elvis? ("I Forgot to Remember to Forget")


    Its also good to see that the path we are on is not THAT far out of whack, LOL !
    OTOH, Speaking of Whacks..... there is always:

    The "Evil Dr. Tung's House Of Whacks" (URL on request)
    Last edited by bakxierboxer; 09-24-2008 at 10:14 AM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakxierboxer View Post
    Not into Elvis? ("I Forgot to Remember to Forget")




    OTOH, Speaking of Whacks..... there is always:

    The "Evil Dr. Tung's House Of Whacks" (URL on request)
    *shudders*, some things never change
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

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