Will the Real Seven Star Mantis please stand up?

[MagicMantis]

I would have to agree that a teacher is indispensable, especially in the first few years. Some would argue that there are, for example, scholars who learned their fields exclusively from books, but rarely are these in the fields of physical sciences, such as the martial arts.

More to the point, before launching on their independent studies they usually had teachers who taught them to read, to spell, as well as such things as philosophy and history. With these firm foundations and the advantages of personal correction they later launched on their independent studies with a greater ability to appreciate the work of others without the same direct contact they needed as early students.

The same is necessary of a martial artist, and the less experienced you are the more you need the personal correction of a live teacher who can focus in on your specific weak points.

However I think it would be wise to remember the old chinese proverb "If I rely only on teachers, better I be without teachers. If I rely only on books, better I be without books." In these days that saying could probably be expanded to include "If I rely only on videos, better I be without videos".

Neil Alexander
New York City

[inyo]

word could you please explain your comments re sifu's chiu chi man and lee kam wing. i train in 7* mantis in perth western australia,my sifu is jimmy tsui--ex student of chiu chi man and kung fu brother of lee kam wing.i find him to be a really good teacher, however i have only limited experience in this particular style,so would appreciate your feedback.i do however have a lot of experience with quality teachers,although in other styles of martial arts.i'm not ****ed at your comments,just curious re what you base your opinion on.--inyo--oossuu??? :confused:

[wisdom mind]

What is the basis for this statement?

[handsome]

Well, i agreed with Word's post 80% and i have had seen Branden Lai , Jon Fonk and Lee Kim Wing in action ... i wasnt impressed with them at all. Mostly my comment based on my exprience with Chu Gar Tonglong, sometimes it require an opened mind and some experience to see things a little in dept--by all mean not to say we dont respect others, it's just an honest opinion...i hope everyone could consider it as friendly discussion between two MA rather than some politics...

[bamboo_ leaf]

To agree 80% with (word) doesn’t say much for your viewpoint.
And yes its good to have an open mind.

The question of legitimacy has many facets.
In one case it could mean the one authorized to teach a system by the systems association.

In another facet it could mean the way someone actually performs the system in accordance with the systems properties.

Many of the names mentioned have been playing mantis for a long time, and are recognized within the mantis circles. In short the family is not very big and people know each other.

It seems that many people here confuse looking or seeing something on a video? and making a judgment on the abilities of the performer. These judgments might mean something if they where from some member of the commity who was a recognized expert. Or from some who has touched hands with the persons that they comment about.

We never hear that I touched hands with this person and I didn’t really think his/her mantis was that good. Or I talked with this person and he/she didn’t know anything about mantis. We don’t even hear (I think that) this or that is wrong because.

What we read is / I saw some video / and this person doesn’t know (what ever) a judgment by some one who never qualifies their judgment other then having access to
The Internet.

good to keep an open mind.

enjoy life

bamboo leaf

[seung ga faat]

I am going to respond to comments about Sifu Funk by saying this: both he and myself officiated a tournament here on the east coast with all Mantis Form division. I don't really care about his videos because I get the feeling that he uses them to develope interest in praying mantis and as a way to promote the art and yes to a degree himself. But, let me speak on my experiences with him as an individual. J. Funk knows and understands PM, J. Funk promotes PM and he is an Ok guy from my own personal experience. We exchanged a little bit and our PM is a little different but also a little the same.

Thanx, Sifu Othal Thomas

[inyo]

Word---still waiting for your explanation re your comments/criticism of sifu's Chiu Chi Man and Lee Kam Wing.OOSSUU!!! :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Turiyan]

You CAN learn from a video. BUT, with praying mantis, the most you'll see, is FORMS. I mean mostly all you'll see is forms.

Turiyan, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan

The REAL taichi:
http://www.wfdesign.com/tc/
http://www.wustyle.com/108.html

[Turiyan]

I'm a film scholar and surpise, how do you learn to PRODUCE? You study film. Wow.

However, the best you can learn from the crap out there on VHS as far as martial arts goes is what NOT to do.

Those that push the "I can teach you what to do" too much are probably frauds and charlatans. Thats just my take on it.

You cant TEACH film.
You cant TEACH acting.

Actors study other actors. The best musicians learned by DOING. Listening. Theory is great for some things. FORM allows two or more people to COMMUNICATE in a common language.

Paradoxical, yes. But isnt this what people are looking for with the Yin and Yang mumbo jumbo?

Socrates said we can learn soely by observation. However, this is Socrates were talking about.

Here is a man that knew the difference between sense and perception. Value judgments get in the way of wide open perceptions. And most are coming directly from the self.

The eye can only see itself.

Turiyan, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan

The REAL taichi:
http://www.wfdesign.com/tc/
http://www.wustyle.com/108.html

[Inquisitor]

I think that videos have a lot of inherent traits which make them "better" than having an instructo, such as: being able to reply the video over and over again until you get the movement, being able to watch it on your own time, etc. However, a good, quality instructor can do many things that a video will never be able to do. For example, he can watch you do a particular movement in a form and then say "You don't want to put your free hand here because of..." or "Make sure that you watch your opponent's feet, because if you're doing this then he can do this..." and other things. He can point out things that you may not see yourself doing, and can make sure that you're doing things properly. It all really depends on the quality of the video and the instructor in question. You can have a good video that may teach you more than a really bad instructor, after all. However, that does not change my opinion that learning from a good instructor is always better than learning from a video, no matter how good the video is.

[suff0beast]

I learned quite a few things from Video Correspondence... Actually I know that I may be alittle rigid, but everyday I practice and everyday my motions become more fluid. Again Shaolin Martial artists learned from watching animals, could it be the same. An Animal wouldn't exactly tell someone how they move, they just have to observe over and over and over... So video gives a good medium to observe w/. This alos could help one w/ observation in confrontation and in watching others as well in their martial arts.. Teachers are definitely a plus to have because they give 1) feedback, 2) Most likely you are in a class which means other people to help and to practice your methods...

Just my thoughts!

[inyo]

You cannot learn martial arts from watching a video,no matter how many times you replay specific forms/techniques etc,this is a shallow understanding of what martial arts are about.You learn from a qualified ??? teacher---from your seniors--from your peers and from those who are junior to you.IT IS NOT AN INTELLECTUAL understanding,--You learn through FEELING---from experiencing pain,disappointment,frustration,failure,success, developing respect for yourself and others -----.You learn through participating,NOT WATCHING !!! AND after years of active participation you integrate your experience and it becomes part of yourSELF--.SOMETHING INSTINCTIVE that manifests itself spontaneously,without thought.It is not something that you attempt to recall from watching a video. :( :( :(

[Laughing Buddha]

I'm curious about your statement about not being impressed with the Mantis masters out there. What, exactly, did you find was unimpressive? Was it the technique being shown? Or the execution of said technique?



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A "Laughing Buddha" or "Dai Tao Fut" is usually found cavorting in front of and leading the lion(s) in a Southern Lion Dance troupe.</P>

*** I speak for myself and not for my Si Fu nor kw oon, so any errors I make are mine alone. ***</P>

[DaiKaiju]

Wow, it has been a while since I have been on but I can see the lunacy of this board hasn't changed. I ask who is a legit mantis stylist and all I get is drama about video cassettes.
From what I have seen and heard, there are a bunch of people who claim the are from the mantis lineage but very few who can back their claim up.
For example I look and the ad for the Praying Mantis videos from Raul Ortiz and all I see is a man using a Tiger strike.
??????
What is that about? Then you have guys going back and forth about how many forms should be in the system.
How in the Maker's name do you mantis people expect to grow if you can't get along, much less get your facts right?
Can someone please clear up this **** mess?
:rolleyes: :eek: :p

That which does not kill you will only make you stronger, and if does kill you, then you sucked to begin with!!